Land Reform and it's Impact On Stalking and the countryside

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Robbie the greed of the minority makes them shout the loudest, lol Tyranny,s abit strong Robbie. May be its time the little boys club in Scotland got a wee shake up .
 
In fact, SNP did very well with almost 25% more votes in the UK than the Green Party.

And they have sufficient devolved power to turn scotlands best asset into a marxist nirvana, bristling with fecking wind turbines.

Fighting well above their political weight.

<<<aaah, thats better. rant over. >>>
 
I see that BBC Question Time is in Aberdeen next Thursday (28th).

I was wanting to apply to be an audience member and was intending to put forward questions regarding Land Reform; I believe it has been largely ignored to a degree in the press up here, and feel people need to know about it (no one at my work had heard about it for for instance).

Unfortunately due to other commitments (collecting an SD member from the airport for a weekends stalking), I will have to submit my questions via email.

If anyone local is interested in attending or having it discussed, one way or the other, you can apply here:

BBC One - Question Time
 
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It is now over ten years since the first Land Reform legislation was enacted. What impact has it had? Well very little if you are a driving instructor in a town. But if you happen to live and work in the countryside it may have a daily negative impact on your very enjoyment of your own property. Slowly I have seen changes in the attitudes of the general public when visiting this area. They used to be far more polite and accommodating if asked to avoid this area due to nests or that area where burning was taking place. Now it is their RIGHT to go where THEY please. Of course we are always told it is not a right to roam but a right of RESPONSIBLE access . How is that policed? With phrases like " dogs under close control" in the guidelines. Any questions you ask them are now met with open hostility and on occasion a torrent of abuse. I live 300 meters up a forest track and have come home to find half a dozen vehicles parked at my road end blocking me out ,their owners away for an afternoons ramble. That despite a polite sign asking for the entrance to be left clear. I even returned from the town one day to find several hill walkers sitting at the picnic table by my back door having their lunch!!!! Your property can also be used for the commercial gain by others such as Pony Trekkers , guided walking groups and canoe or rafters groups and you have to suspend your activities to allow them carry on . An example- a group of campers had erected tents behind a timber stack for shelter. Next morning ,very early when the wood wagon came to pick up ,not only did they refuse to move but shouted at the driver for waking them. He left and no doubt the costs of his fruitless trip would be passed on to the owner of the forest. Ramblers websites are now full of descriptions of confrontations with land managers and stories of how they found and destroyed fenn traps ,crow cages or snares. All this with the level of Land Reform we have now. What will the future hold? When I read some of the submissions to the committee it chills my blood. Deer described as "pollution" , single interest groups pushing for a deer population of one animal per 100hectares , all salmon fishing to be catch and release and possible season reduction while making Brown Trout fishing " more readily available and at a far more reasonable cost" . I wonder what group that particular populist piece is aimed at? In our new one-party state if you aim to do well, work hard, earn a bit of money and perhaps aspire to own a bit of land all you can look forward to is crippling taxes and demonising by our political masters.

David
 
I was out stalking with Jamross and we met a keeper on his ground who was complaining that ramblers had let their dogs run loose in his pheasant pens and were very abusive when simply asked to put them on a lead. I love Scotland but right now I'm glad I don't live there and worry about my stalking/shooting/fishing friends that do.
 
David, how much has really changed though other than the public are more aware of what they can do now.

We never had a trespass law in Scotland and people could always walk where they wished , they only commited
an offence if they caused damage, although there was no trespass law you could ask them to leave, but not everybody that was asked would, much the same people and attitude as the ones you describe abusing the present act.. Responsible access , there is nothing responsible about what they are doing.

But to be honest having been life long in land management, I don't see that all that much has changed.
 
paul k said:
I was out stalking with Jamross and we met a keeper on his ground who was complaining that ramblers had let their dogs run loose in his pheasant pens and were very abusive when simply asked to put them on a lead. I love Scotland but right now I'm glad I don't live there and worry about my stalking/shooting/fishing friends that do.
Click to expand...

Same answer as above , there is nothing new about that it's always happened, they always could walk where they wished
They had no right to let there dogs run free before and you had every right to ask them to put them on a lead

Just as they have no right to let them run free now, and you still have every right to ask them to put them on a lead.

They committed an offence if they caused damage under the old act, just as they do now under the present one
you had slightly more powers under the old act than you have now, you could ask them to leave, if they refused you could physically remove someone, using no more force than was absolutely necessary under the old act.

I think you could be in trouble if you tried that now.

Not that much has changed other than the public seem to be more aware of what they can do.
 
bogtrotter said:
David, how much has really changed though other than the public are more aware of what they can do now.

We never had a trespass law in Scotland and people could always walk where they wished , they only commited
an offence if they caused damage, although there was no trespass law you could ask them to leave, but not everybody that was asked would, much the same people and attitude as the ones you describe abusing the present act.. Responsible access , there is nothing responsible about what they are doing.

But to be honest having been life long in land management, I don't see that all that much has changed.
Click to expand...

If nothing much has changed for you Bogtrotter then good luck to you and I hope you continue to feel that way. I never had any issue with folk walking over the land and at the time of the discussions before the first Land Reform act , I did ask why one was needed. I think the act has changed fundamentally how the public now view private land ,if indeed it can be called that now. I think it is ridiculous that someone can use your land,bought legally with taxed income, to further their own business and the owner of the land has to accommodate them. You can now be forced to put dog hatches in your stiles, horse access gates in your fences and put up with the litter and disturbance of campers staying for days. Even out on the remote hill you come across folk on trials bikes and "dune buggys" . These things gaining access through horse access gates. Even the local access officer admits this is a serious problem for wildlife and a hazard for walkers but can offer no solution. One poster asked if the politicians knew their proposals would result in rural unemployment and financial hardship- they most certainly do but are willing to sacrifice this section of the population for their own political ideals.

David
 
I'd say it is the massive change in peoples attitude and becoming so far removed from the countryside and so quickly more than the law change.

Surely it is aggainst the access code to ride motorised transport over private property? Surely that would be classed as damage?
Didnae ken u could be forced to put dog acces gates in either are u on some sort of scheme?
 
DB Most of the large landowners that includes the forestry companies use Tax payers money in one way or another to exist. Surly the Taxpayer has some rights. Grants single payment lease payment Tax reform it goes on and on. ;)
I think the ones removed from the countryside as in CB post are now realising how much they are subsidising it.
 
David Brown said:
If nothing much has changed for you Bogtrotter then good luck to you and I hope you continue to feel that way. I never had any issue with folk walking over the land and at the time of the discussions before the first Land Reform act , I did ask why one was needed. I think the act has changed fundamentally how the public now view private land ,if indeed it can be called that now. I think it is ridiculous that someone can use your land,bought legally with taxed income, to further their own business and the owner of the land has to accommodate them. You can now be forced to put dog hatches in your stiles, horse access gates in your fences and put up with the litter and disturbance of campers staying for days. Even out on the remote hill you come across folk on trials bikes and "dune buggys" . These things gaining access through horse access gates. Even the local access officer admits this is a serious problem for wildlife and a hazard for walkers but can offer no solution. One poster asked if the politicians knew their proposals would result in rural unemployment and financial hardship- they most certainly do but are willing to sacrifice this section of the population for their own political ideals.

David
Click to expand...

It's a right of pedestrian access, with the exception of vehicles adapted for and driven by invalids. If you're having unwelcome 'trials bikes and dune buggies'? I think you need to have words with your local access ranger and the police and ask for their help. As for being forced to add any extra field gates or dog hatches. I am at a loss to understand why you feel this to be so. If anyone told you that they lied. I do agree though, someone else coming onto your property and using it to earn a living is a damned cheek.
 
Quite the oppisate they mibee believe they are subsidising it but in reality not really the case. U'd be amazed how little some farmers get in the old SFP and how many got none (if new tennants/farmers) but yes some big boys are getting vast sum's too
But is that any difference to factories/industry being being given large incentives tax breaks to set up shop only for them to bugger off as soon after when someone else dangles a carrot

But i dinae think most folk are so misguided either. Most of the folk just have no clue and very little respect for anything.

Best thing that could happen if that is the case is stop all subsidies and tell joe public to p*** off then.
 
There is nothing in the act that allows motorised transport on your land, as for access gates the only place you need to put access gates or stiles is on established rights of and bridle ways.

If you have forestry blocks etc it might be good practice to provide stiles on regularly walked routes as we did allowing access to the hill, otherwise they will
just climb your fences.


Camping I am not 100% sure of but I am pretty sure there are restrictions, sticks
in my mind that you can only camp on the one spot overnight,but would need to
check that out.

We thought the act would cause us quite a few problems,we had a lot of hill walkers before the act, and to be honest nothing has really changed,the hill phones
scheme for people to ring to find out where stalking is taking place has worked fairly well.

Most people are reasonable , just the few that abuse the right, but there is nothing new there we always had them.
 
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David Brown said:
On being introduced I reminded myself not to judge a book by its cover-she had face piercings with enough steelwork to sink a ship, hair twenty different colours and scarily a tuft of hair hung over one eye tied with two pigeon feathers.

I sat stunned. Usually I would dismiss such talk as idealistic wish list building but these folk have the ear of our parliament and the politics of envy is powerful. Looking at how this would progress is depressing. I feel like emigrating especially as she often justified what she said by stating " it's the will of the Scottish People" . Surprise surprise both she and her partner are English.

David
Click to expand...

And, thanks to Blair and co, I expect she had a degree in Politics, Philosophy and Economics.
 
'Radical' Scottish land reform plan unveiled - BBC News

Well unsurprisingly the Scottish Government or rather the SNP are going to push this through after a 'ten week consultation' having published the Bill.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out; since this is a stalking site I'll keep it to that subject as enough has already been said however, I suspect that anyone thinking that a bit of sport will become more available or cheaper is in for a nasty shock.
 
I had the fortune to stalk on Jura a couple of times last season....if Sturgeon wants to see the effect this will have on rural Highland & Island communities she should take a long hard look at the unintended consequences.

Far from everyone rushing to buy 1000's of acres of open hill.....fit for no "productive economic activity" apart from a few sheep and deer.....whole communities rely on the income derived from visitors and sporting rights. If the ghillie or stalker is laid off, he will move to the mainland, with his wife and children. The school class size then shrinks, not enough to support the two teachers employed there and one of them is then forced to move across the water...together with his/her spouse, who probably works at the local shop/farm/distillery, and children and before you know it a community of barely 180 people is shrinking rapidly and terminally.

You may get a few idealistic Eco Warriors who think they can tame the Scottish Wilderness to grow enough rocket and quinoa in order to knit their own shoes but in reality the only productive use of these vast tracts of land is to leave it as it is (with grants from Heritage Scotland for regen) or stack it full of wind turbines!

But Hey Ho, Jeanette Crankie can have her William Wallace, or should I say Robert Mugabe, moment and hammer yet another nail into the coffin of the Union.
 
So they are not happy with trying to sell it off, knowing full well a lot will never be sold they are going to impose poll tax/council tax on all sporting land.
so that will effectively close a lot of sustanance shooting estates down.

I love living and working in the Highlands, thats why Im here, I do not make a huge income, most people would not entertain working for my living wage, but I do as I am rich in all that I survey.
If they charge me rates at the rate it was 26 years ago, or even more!I will be working at a loss.
It realy is a them and us situation, perhaps I should move to Zimbabwe, at least there its warm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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