Expanding versus disintegrating monolithic bullets

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Just to expand on my last post

I shot a 120 lb yearling hind this morning - 150 ish mtrs side on

122 g 6.5 mm travelling at 3065 VO at muzzle

Bullet entered right side - hit rib and passed through exit wound smaller than entry (as rib blown on entry)

IMG-3234.jpg


I’ve other images of previous terminal effect , but this is reasonable phone quality rather than last minute carcass for record pic

Oh and the animal ran 25 mtrs before expiration
 
Ronin said:
Just to expand on my last post

I shot a 120 lb yearling hind this morning - 150 ish mtrs side on

122 g 6.5 mm travelling at 3065 VO at muzzle
Click to expand...

Nice tidy carcass but I looked at that THAC stuff in the past and was put off by the description on their website:

EDH is a specially developed hunting and long-range bullet with fragmentation properties, designed for maximum impact on impact. With good aerodynamic properties, high precision and efficient energy utilization at long ranges.

This bullet combines precision with rapid fragmentation, providing fast and humane game killing. Perfect for hunters and long-range shooters who demand top performance!
Click to expand...

Is your experience they hold together? And any recovered yet to weigh?
 
Ronin said:
Just to expand on my last post

I shot a 120 lb yearling hind this morning - 150 ish mtrs side on

122 g 6.5 mm travelling at 3065 VO at muzzle

Bullet entered right side - hit rib and passed through exit wound smaller than entry (as rib blown on entry)

IMG-3234.jpg


I’ve other images of previous terminal effect , but this is reasonable phone quality rather than last minute carcass for record pic

Oh and the animal ran 25 mtrs before expiration
Click to expand...
Got anything from 'longer range'? I'm tempted to try these next. My RFD has finally started stocking them so it appears they are here to stay.
 
BWH said:
Interesting that you have had a similar experince. It is a bit dissapointing that the dealers wont take the carcasses as the bullets are doing what htey are designed to do and make smaller calibres very effective. I guess it begs the question of whether a larger diameter bullet is required or not? Sound like your experince is that non fragmenting copper in a 6.5 is fine? My experince in other countries is that a rule of thumb became .30 and above for mono bullets. interested to hear others views.
Click to expand...
I've come to the same conclusion that .30 and above is a good solution for mono / copper. As I reload I am tending to stick with Barnes TTSX for general deer use. The TSX works well on big / dangerous game.
 
Selous said:
It’s amazing how different your experience is to mine and I can’t explain why unless our shot placement differs substantially.
I’m 22 years into non lead and I feel that I see better straight line penetration, faster kills, shorter run distances and less meat damage overall than with the lead core bullets I used previously. These were the Hornady BTSP, the Speer Hot Cor, the Nosler BT and Partitions (small numbers with the partition) and the Hornady SST. They were largely in 150g and 165g in .308 Win and 162 SST in 7mm. I wouldn’t go back to lead if the ammo was free if I’m honest.
For the record I’m not doubting the accuracy of what you report in any way. It’s just interesting that there is almost complete disagreement in our experiences.
Click to expand...
I suspect that there is an awful lot of difference between individual stalkers and how they shoot deer, even when using identical rifles, cartridges and bullets.

Some of this will be the particular deer on their ground, sorts of condition they are in - coat, fat content etc. all dictated by the type of land. Stress and levels yo which deer are being pushed is another big difference. I have noticed that deer on ground that I have close FLS land seem to be on crack cocaine and are highly strung. They tend to run. Deer elsewhere that are under little pressure are totally chilled out.

Some stalkers are very relaxed and can move in very quietly, others have all the subtlety of a bull dozer. I have definitely noticed that if I sit and wait for deer to pop out they drop on the spot. If stalked into, then they run. If they are already spooked and say trotting along a fence line, then bullets have little immediate effect.

And we all have our own views and interpretations of what goes on. A 30 yard run across a flat field is an irrelevance. A 30 yard run down hill into a gully that then results in a 30 yard slide after it collapses and ends up in a stream and is only found a couple of hours later after gases start swelling is a major embuggerance. Was it the bullet, shot placement or that it was already on high alert because its partner had just been shot, or that it didn’t know correct protocol, or simply that I probably rushed the shot is all matters of endless debate.

I can certainly attest to having a run of poor form at the moment. I haven’t changed bullets or rifles or scopes. Different ground, a bit more pressure to achieve culls and a bad cut on my shooting hands thumb etc all compound to having had quite a few runners recently. Very easy to pass blame onto all sorts of things.
 
Last edited:
I use Yewtree TLR in my 6.5x55, couple of hundred deer to date. They have proven to be the most effective I have seen at longer ranges. They are going fast. When I switched to them (from factory lead) on @Selous 's advice I moved my shot placement forward to be in line with the centre of the foreleg and since have had very few issues with a copper fragment perforating the rumen
 
big ears said:
But you have had some then from what you say even by shifting shot forwards
Click to expand...
Maybe 3 or 4 in 200+ so, same as lead. I'd take it as an acceptable compromise from a round that is delivering impressive wound channels and exits at the longest hill/hind ranges
 
Given that dealers dont want metal in the carcass and the main drive for non lead is metal contamination I am unsure why we would look to increase this with frangible bullets

Performance of non frangible non lead bullets of the appropriate design for your application are significantly less likely to produce unwanted carcase damage.
The single mass doesnt produce multiple wound channels, break up on impact causing the subcuteanous and intramuscular bllod clots and bruising like the frangible designs.
Risk of diaphragm perforation is higher with frangible.
The secondary target impact risk is much more predictable with one projectile over one that has broken up or deformed.
Primarily the complete pass through is the reason a single mass projectile makes more sense from a carcase quality perspective.
 
Edinburgh Rifles said:
Given that dealers dont want metal in the carcass and the main drive for non lead is metal contamination I am unsure why we would look to increase this with frangible bullets

Performance of non frangible non lead bullets of the appropriate design for your application are significantly less likely to produce unwanted carcase damage.
The single mass doesnt produce multiple wound channels, break up on impact causing the subcuteanous and intramuscular bllod clots and bruising like the frangible designs.
Risk of diaphragm perforation is higher with frangible.
The secondary target impact risk is much more predictable with one projectile over one that has broken up or deformed.
Primarily the complete pass through is the reason a single mass projectile makes more sense from a carcase quality perspective.
Click to expand...
In my experience the copper fragments generally exit rather than stay in the carcass
 
NickJ said:
In my experience the copper fragments generally exit rather than stay in the carcass
Click to expand...
There are a lot of xrays and carcase photos showing embedded fragments as well as the inevitable recovered fragments.
Also a significant number of people reporting punctured diaphragm on perpendicular shots and secondary target impacts at unusual angles.
Far easier to remove a single mass projectile IF it doesn’t exit and far more likely to product the pass through vector if it stays in one piece


I have dozens of photos like this from stalkers using frangible non lead at relatively high terminal velocity on small framed targets.

Granted you get anomalies with any bullet but the frequency of this with frangible bullets would indicate it’s happening more than with solid non frangible
 

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So for ease of quickness the popular UK available offerings.
Which are frangible ? Which are solid or monolithic proper term?
 
sauer said:
So for ease of quickness the popular UK available offerings.
Which are frangible ? Which are solid or monolithic proper term?
Click to expand...
Of the ones I have shot.

Frangible
Yewtree
Virtus
RWS Evo green
Geco Zero

Monolithic
Fox
Barnes (TTSX & TSX)
Sako Blade

There will be others to be added to this list but these are the ones I have shot and seen how they behave
 
I just bought a box of the food grade tin Evo Green, very accurate but havent tested them on deer yet. At 139gr out of a 30-06 they may well prove a little explosive on smaller deer but I'll give them a try.
 
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