100 yrd Zero on a Metric 100m Range

[Tim.243]

I randomly check my zero but I just put a 3 inch round plate out to 200 and shoot it resting on a bag on the bonnet , if it hits job done I’m not really fussed where it hits on it as thats the furthest i shoot and itll still be a dead deer

But just for reference it’ll be about 2” high at 100

+1, more to the point the ability to work out distances from time spent on your ground is a fundamental tool every shooter should have.

Glad no one added it is a windy day....

Some one said the world might come to an end if the printer runs out of ink.....lol


Tim.243

 

[Alantoo]

But the OP is talking about zeroing at a range and therefore he'll presumably be shooting off of a bench, which means with ammo matched to a decent modern CF then 1" should be the norm if not better rather than doing well if he shoots an inch.

In terms of a rest I find quads very close to being prone with a pod, longets bunny off quads is 237 yards and headshots at 150+ with the bunnies are doable. Not blowing my trumpet but I don't get how people think field accuracy should fall off a cliff compared to range accuracy, get out behind the trigger enough and it becomes second nature.

PS keyhole is the sign of a tumbling bullet and not desirable.

The point you seem to have missed is that the OP is zeroing his first rifle with the first box of ammunition, and certainly is not in the same position as you with your experience, rifles and evident prowess, let alone with "with ammo matched..."

Given the OP's circumstances, were you able to zero and shoot under an inch with your first rifle and box of ammunition and then for ever after?

My observations of others' groups over the last couple of years of two or three visits per month to the range would indicate that was unlikely.

I also find quad sticks great, and with my back definitely more comfortable to shoot than prone.

For what it is worth, I also think that practice of pulling the trigger has improved my shooting to a greater extent than the fine tuning of the ammunition I have loaded.

Alan

 

[25 Sharps]

Good for you.

I was at the Monmouth Tunnel range last night and for the BDS day last Sunday. There were very few sub 1" groups there, even from varmint / target barrelled rifles.

The OP has what sounds like his first rifle, having used estate ones previously, so he is only just zeroing it for the first time and has yet to find what ammunition it likes. All factors to indicate he will be doing well to shoot within an inch.

As for your shooting under an inch with every rifle...how much under an inch? Does the same premise not apply even if you always manage 1/2" 5 shot groups? I.E with a nominal 1" high at 100 you will be having bullets passing between 1.25" and 0.75".

Alan

That's rather presumptuous about someone else's shooting ability is it not? He could be one of those slightly annoying folk that are just natural and don't have to work at it. Took a lad at work on a corporate clay shoot a while back, he made it to the final of the day's competition having never even shot an air rifle before, OP could be similar with a rifle.

Last time our club did a smallest group comp at 100 the majority were an inch or under an inch, think the winner was 3/8", mine was 5/8"

Totally agree that the 9 yards the OP was initially worried about is nothing to worry about and the difference is outside the bounds of anyone without super human shooting abaility but suggesting shooting MOA is unlikely is just unnecessary.

 

[25 Sharps]

Apologies. I should've said 'buttonhole'!!! I agree with you to a degree about the accuracy, but the truth is a large proportion of shooters aren't practicing enough to be able to get the best out their outfit. Hence my somewhat generalised statement about accuracy in the field

This is a fair point, I'm lucky and have a fair bit of land to shoot over and an understanding wife so I'm out 2 to 3 times a week. That said first thing I did when I got my first centrfires was to join a club to get experience and learn from others, best thing I could have done!

 

[25 Sharps]

The point you seem to have missed is that the OP is zeroing his first rifle with the first box of ammunition, and certainly is not in the same position as you with your experience, rifles and evident prowess, let alone with "with ammo matched..."

Given the OP's circumstances, were you able to zero and shoot under an inch with your first rifle and box of ammunition and then for ever after?

My observations of others' groups over the last couple of years of two or three visits per month to the range would indicate that was unlikely.

I also find quad sticks great, and with my back definitely more comfortable to shoot than prone.

For what it is worth, I also think that practice of pulling the trigger has improved my shooting to a greater extent than the fine tuning of the ammunition I have loaded.

Alan

From memory about 1.25" with the .223 with cheap FMJ and a shade over an inch with fed fusion from the unmoderated 6.5x55 due to very pronounced vertical stringing, which I have since found most definitely does not like being shot off a bipod with left hand under the butt. I had been shooting rimmies for about a year and air rifles for 10 years or so, so not completely new but then for all we know the OP could be the same.

As for matched ammo how do we know he hasn't bought 3/4 types to try on the range session?

My best man came on a guest day having only shot air rifles before, he put 5 rounds out of my aged .308 into a 2" group, at 600 he held the bull with most in the 'v' so my ability to shoot moa at is easily matched by new shooters and I don't consider myself to have any prowess as a result!

edit

just re-read the OP, so he only has one type of ammo, he may get lucky! but as an NRA member able to book the range I assume he has a safe shooter card and therefore at least some shooting experience!

 

[1066]

Just to answer a few of the likely answers I do have access to the ranges at Bisley as an NRA member so a 100yrd range is possible, but at present my wife is pregnant with twins and within a month of popping. Therefore traveling the 2hrs to Bisley isn't a massively good idea for my health and general wellbeing.

As others have said - the extra few yards with a .243 won't make jot of difference in practical terms, with a .22lr it's the difference between a hit and a miss. But, just be aware, the 100yd range (Short Siberia) is actually about 109 yards.

 

[Kjf]

I randomly check my zero but I just put a 3 inch round plate out to 200 and shoot it resting on a bag on the bonnet , if it hits job done I’m not really fussed where it hits on it as thats the furthest i shoot and itll still be a dead deer

But just for reference it’ll be about 2” high at 100

thats the one, for stalking ie dead deer,

as long as it hits central and is 1" to 2" high /low / left or right of centre at 200yds/meters , it's reet, the rest is shooter error

 

[Alantoo]

snip...
Given the OP's circumstances, were you able to zero and shoot under an inch with your first rifle and box of ammunition and then for ever after?
snip...

From memory about 1.25" with the .223 with cheap FMJ and a shade over an inch with fed fusion from the unmoderated 6.5x55 due to very pronounced vertical stringing, snip...

I take that as a 'no' then.

So I don't see quite why you took exception to my example of "doing well to have around an inch group". I made no reference to any body else's groups, rifles or abilities. It was stated simply to show that the likely spread of 1" group 0.5" up or down was far greater by a factor of 32 or so than the 0.03" that was mentioned earlier as being the difference between metres and yards.

That's rather presumptuous about someone else's shooting ability is it not? He could be one of those slightly annoying folk that are just natural and don't have to work at it. snip...

And you say I was presumptuous!

snip...

Last time our club did a smallest group comp at 100 the majority were an inch or under an inch, think the winner was 3/8", mine was 5/8"

snip...

So even given your competiton best 5/8"and your first rifle's first groups of 1.25" you still think it was unreasonable for me to cite "around and inch" as an example? Even your 0.625" group gives over 20 times the 0.03", which again bears out what I was saying that the group size renders the 100 yards or 100 metres difference as being not something to worry about.

Snip...
Totally agree that the 9 yards the OP was initially worried about is nothing to worry about and the difference is outside the bounds of anyone without super human shooting abaility but suggesting shooting MOA is unlikely is just unnecessary.

Unlikely? Unnecessary? Definitely not suggested by me at least....I used "around an inch" as my example. "Around" means either over or under an inch as far as I understood.

Probably a hangover from my PC every-one's-a-winner education, but I think your implication in #13 that as all your rifles shoot under an inch, the OP should shoot sub MOA on his rifle's first outing, is unnecessarily setting him up for disappointment...especially as you were not able to achieve it yourself...and very few of those I have seen at the range over the last couple of years have done so consistently either.

Alan

 

[25 Sharps]

Agreed not worth worrying about.

You will be doing well to have around an inch group at 100 yards so some shots will be 1/2" high and some 1 1/2" high. Assessing the best nominal 1" high POI I found best done with a raft of shots over a period. The deer won't notice the difference.

Alan

I take that as a 'no' then.

So I don't see quite why you took exception to my example of "doing well to have around an inch group". I made no reference to any body else's groups, rifles or abilities. It was stated simply to show that the likely spread of 1" group 0.5" up or down was far greater by a factor of 32 or so than the 0.03" that was mentioned earlier as being the difference between metres and yards.



And you say I was presumptuous!



So even given your competiton best 5/8"and your first rifle's first groups of 1.25" you still think it was unreasonable for me to cite "around and inch" as an example? Even your 0.625" group gives over 20 times the 0.03", which again bears out what I was saying that the group size renders the 100 yards or 100 metres difference as being not something to worry about.



Unlikely? Unnecessary? Definitely not suggested by me at least....I used "around an inch" as my example. "Around" means either over or under an inch as far as I understood.

Probably a hangover from my PC every-one's-a-winner education, but I think your implication in #13 that as all your rifles shoot under an inch, the OP should shoot sub MOA on his rifle's first outing, is unnecessarily setting him up for disappointment...especially as you were not able to achieve it yourself...and very few of those I have seen at the range over the last couple of years have done so consistently either.

Alan

By saying you'll be doing well to achieve around an inch you are suggesting it is more likely he won't achieve that, no both my rifles did not shoot under an inch but both achieved your 'around an inch' with the first ammo I tried with them. Had the .223 been shooting decent ammo my group would have been under an inch, and this was on short Siberia so as 1066 says, 100m or 109 yards.

Also the OP's rifle comes with an MOA guarantee and I'm not saying sub moa I'm saying moa, so 1.24" outside edge to outside or 9% if he's on short Siberia.

I just think its perfectly reasonable for someone, who has some shooting experience, to expect moa at 100 yards off a bench at a range with a Tikka and decent factory ammo.... not that they'd be doing well to get that as it's unlikely

 

[zambezi]

I have used a ballistic calculator set to metric and then converted to imperial to get the answer I think is correct, but I wanted a second opinion if anyone has the time please.

The technical:-

Tikka T3x in .243
Sako Gamehead 100gr

Wonderfully Sako have an online ballistics calculator for their ammunition. If you run 100m and 92m [nominal 100yd equivalent] zero values back-to-back, and then compare the drop charts, the practical differences are negligible and probably less significant than human error/variation shooting from sticks in the field.

 

[Alantoo]

By saying you'll be doing well to achieve around an inch you are suggesting it is more likely he won't achieve that, no both my rifles did not shoot under an inch but both achieved your 'around an inch' with the first ammo I tried with them. Had the .223 been shooting decent ammo my group would have been under an inch, and this was on short Siberia so as 1066 says, 100m or 109 yards.

Also the OP's rifle comes with an MOA guarantee and I'm not saying sub moa I'm saying moa, so 1.24" outside edge to outside or 9% if he's on short Siberia.

I just think its perfectly reasonable for someone, who has some shooting experience, to expect moa at 100 yards off a bench at a range with a Tikka and decent factory ammo.... not that they'd be doing well to get that as it's unlikely

Ah well, interesting diversion, our experience is different who would have guessed!....let's hope the OP manages to get it zeroed to his satisfaction.

Agreed not worth worrying about.

With an inch group at 100 yards some shots will be 1/2" high and some 1 1/2" high. Assessing the best nominal 1" high POI I found best done with a raft of shots over a period. The deer won't notice the difference.

Alan

If I take out the "You will be doing well to have around" as above would you then be able to appreciate the point I was actually making relative to the 0.03" metre / yard difference?

Alan

 

[25 Sharps]

If I take out the "You will be doing well to have around" as above would you then be able to appreciate the point I was actually making relative to the 0.03" metre / yard difference?

Alan

yes, I did in my first couple of posts, when I said it would take a superhuman to shoot well enough to show the difference between a 100 yard or 100 metre zero, or words to that effect.

hopefulky the OP will report back how his new rifle shoots.....

edit, it was post 23 when I said 'I totally agree'

 

[JTO]

Life gets tedious, don't it!

 

[Alantoo]

Life gets tedious, don't it!

Agreed...but it would be unbearable if we couldn't while away the hours with yet another inconsequential pedantic and nitpicking exchange on SD!

Speaking of which, I forgot to refute 25 Sharps' claim/interpretation that I was suggesting the OP was unlikely to achieve an inch group.

By saying you'll be doing well to achieve around an inch you are suggesting it is more likely he won't achieve that, snip...

I just think its perfectly reasonable for someone, who has some shooting experience, to expect moa at 100 yards off a bench at a range with a Tikka and decent factory ammo.... not that they'd be doing well to get that as it's unlikely

If my original statement has to be rephrased it could maybe be a double negative...from the positive "You will be doing well to have around an inch group at 100 yards..." to "You will not be doing badly to have around an inch group at 100 yards..." Either way "Unlikely to achieve" didn't and doesn't come in to it. Though I think my original line scans and works better with the follow on explanation of the 1" bracketing of the 0.03" difference...

Alan

 

[A Guy Out West]

+1

even simpler, don't worry about it

 

[deeangeo]

even simpler, don't worry about it

 

[hybridfiat]

There is a range at which the projectile may not expand and kill quickly so best to work that out first and stick to the limitations of your rifle and shooting ability.

Here's how I do my medium game rifles. From 0m to around 250m the rifle should put a bullet into the 6" dia vitals area. 6" suits the .35 Whelan and my 6.5x55. The .223 is 3".

I just have to estimate if the game is too far for a quick shot.
From the muzzle to it's maximum point blank range, I just put the crosshairs on the centre of the vital zone.
The trajectory is different for each cartridge or loading so a chart should be consulted (Google search) but it works.

 

[Muir]

even simpler, don't worry about it

Freaking YES. THIS! ~Muir

 

[rem284]

You all just worry too much!

 

[tarponhead]

I went to the range on Thursday, got my 6.5 swede and .17HMR to where they needed to be at <MOA, POI dead on for the .17HMR and an inch above for the swede. At that point, I stopped, packed up and left before I could start fiddling with it and bugger it up.