16" Barrel on a 308? Or a 6.5 x 55? Or something else? Or don't bother?!

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BunnyDoom

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Hi, does anyone have experience with 16" barrels on deer calibre rifles? I mainly shoot roe and fallow, but would like something I can do boar and reds in scotland with too...


I'm thinking about getting a 16" 308 but I'm struggling to find anyone with experience or BC info on this calibre if you cut it down? Would a 6.5x55 be better? Or is there something else entirely that someone can reccomend?


The reason I as is I like a short barrel, for manoeuvrability etc, but I do want something that will handle the odd long shot I take and the 600yd+ days at Bisley


Thanks,
Rich
 
FN USA have the FNAR tactical rifle on the market wih a 16 inch barrel. If FN puts their name on it, it can't be bad.
 
I have to be honest with you and say that I don't see any disadvantage with the 20'' barrel on my 308 that would want me to cut it to 16'' and have to worry about suitable powder burn rates, MV and so on. However, I do remember reading somewhere that a 7-08AI was a calibre that lent itself to a short barrel but even then I think they were still referring to 20''.
 
I don't know if 16" is on the short side, but 18" seems to be pretty common for .308 these days.

This article supports 18" barrels: http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

A mateos mine has an 18" barrel on his .308 and it is nice and short and handles really well, even with a mod.

A shorter barrel will also be less flexible, and therefore more accurate (all things being equal) than a long barrel.

Cheers,

Christian
 
I work a 20" .308 with a moderator for Reds and Roe, I like it. Have a look at this thread http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12694 lots of info here on pros and cons of short barrels. Basically you get .303 performance in a short handy format, will handle any European game with it except big brown bears. Probably OK even for them if you are lucky and get a one shot kill but for angry bear you need accuracy and the ability to deliver lots of power reliably to drop it before it reaches you. Not much of a problem in the UK though.

Bob
 
If it is a stalking rifle, take the length out of the action instead. I like short rifles. I don't like short barrels. If you insist on a shortened barrel, go for something with a maximum of bore to cartridge capacity - in a .30 cal the 30BR would be a good choice. FWIW, my Blaser is about 4 inches shorter thru the action than a conventional turnbolt - which is the main reason i mostly stalk with a Blaser and why Blaser's handle so well. Go to a single shot, and you can reduce your action length by as much as 6 inches! This is a large part of why a lot of very experienced stalkers have single shot rifles. Some of the minature turnbolt actions like the CZ527 can save you a couple of inches. And of course, taking an inch out of the length of your action saves quite a bit more weight than taking an inch out of your barrel, and generally results in a stiffer action. Hence a short action (like the .308) is generally about half a pound lighter thru the action than a long action (like the 6.5x55).

The idea that shortened barrels are necessarily more accurate is a furphy - which is of course, why all competitive target rifles have very long barrels rather than short barrels. In a lightweight rifle, a shorter barrel will be a bit stiffer and may provide greater accuracy (this is debatable, and has to do with harmonics). However a key determinant of accuracy is pressure at the bore, especially in heavy-barreled rifles, which has a tendency to tip bullets. This is the main reason target barrels are long - to reduce pressure at the muzzle and minimise the tipping effect as the bullet exits the muzzle.
 
If the length of the rifle really is a bother then go and get a nice falling block rifle. The action/receiver is so compact you can have a decent length barrel.

Then go learnt to use it and reload for the next shot. If Big Game hunters in Africa can do it then I am sure you could learn to ;).
 
brenneke said:
If it is a stalking rifle, take the length out of the action instead. I like short rifles. I don't like short barrels. If you insist on a shortened barrel, go for something with a maximum of bore to cartridge capacity - in a .30 cal the 30BR would be a good choice. FWIW, my Blaser is about 4 inches shorter thru the action than a conventional turnbolt - which is the main reason i mostly stalk with a Blaser and why Blaser's handle so well. Go to a single shot, and you can reduce your action length by as much as 6 inches! This is a large part of why a lot of very experienced stalkers have single shot rifles. Some of the minature turnbolt actions like the CZ527 can save you a couple of inches. And of course, taking an inch out of the length of your action saves quite a bit more weight than taking an inch out of your barrel, and generally results in a stiffer action. Hence a short action (like the .308) is generally about half a pound lighter thru the action than a long action (like the 6.5x55).

The idea that shortened barrels are necessarily more accurate is a furphy - which is of course, why all competitive target rifles have very long barrels rather than short barrels. In a lightweight rifle, a shorter barrel will be a bit stiffer and may provide greater accuracy (this is debatable, and has to do with harmonics). However a key determinant of accuracy is pressure at the bore, especially in heavy-barreled rifles, which has a tendency to tip bullets. This is the main reason target barrels are long - to reduce pressure at the muzzle and minimise the tipping effect as the bullet exits the muzzle.
Click to expand...

Ahhh actually target rifles such as used in teh palma match have long barrels for two reasons........................

1) they need the length to keep velocities up for that 155 Grn Palma bullet to still be super sonic at 1200 yards

2) For the sight radius.

The shot fall and tightness of group has more to do with barrel harmonics and nodes than length of barrel.
 
Bob said:
I work a 20" .308 with a moderator for Reds and Roe, I like it. Have a look at this thread http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12694 lots of info here on pros and cons of short barrels. Basically you get .303 performance in a short handy format, will handle any European game with it except big brown bears. Probably OK even for them if you are lucky and get a one shot kill but for angry bear you need accuracy and the ability to deliver lots of power reliably to drop it before it reaches you. Not much of a problem in the UK though.

Bob
Click to expand...

Strange as chap I know in Alaska uses and has used a Ruger .44 Redhawk for bear protection ad he has found that unlike a lot of experts proclaim that heavy bullets are needed that the 180 HP bullet from the Redhawk is seriously bad medicine on the bears.
 
I don't have a short barreled 308, but just see that FN has already some years this rifle available. If it would be bad, would they continue it? Most powders used in 308 are meant to burn in short barrels. 16" might be short, but 20" or even 18", lightweight design, good scope, roedale or A Tec CMM4 mod, sounds very attractive to carry up- and downhill in Scotland.
 
I have had one with 18" and it was fine you need to work with powder choice to make sure the powder is burnt inside the rifle to achieve the best efficiency . I Messed about with quick load and 7 08 come out as a good option as it had more choice of lighter bullets so you could keep the mv up . Ended up with 308 as that's the barrel I had at hand to use .

I know of a 6.5 x 47 Bering used regularly on deer non have complained yet !

Twg
 
16" barrels much too short for anything other than tactical reasons and then it must be fitted with a suitable flash hider. Stick to a minimum of 20" and save yourself a lot of hassle.
 
I run two short barrel 308s a 20 inch AI and an 18 inch TRG. The AI is too heavy for anything away from high seats but the TRG is very good and will still shoot at 600 metres. I have shot the LMT Sharpshooter rifle with 16 inch barrel and it will certainly shoot very well out to 800metres. I just use 165 grain and 180 Gn ballistic tips which are perfectly good.
 
I have two friends with 16" barrelled RPA rifles both work superbly well with both factory and reloaded ammo when RPA were developing this model they couldn't find any difference in accuracy between these ones and the 24" barrelled version.

The reloads my friend uses are the same recipe 125gr Nosler loads I use in my 26" barrelled 308.

The 308 has no issues achieving the required MV and ME required
 
I use a .308 with a 16" barrel. I dont handload and use a range of factory ammunition at various weights. I am sure it is possible to prove (using all sorts of personal experiences and manuals) that it is a stupid thing to do, however all I can tell you is the the rifle is very accurate and when the trigger is depressed, so is what you are aiming at. It is excellent to carry and comes to the shoulder very well. Worth pointing out that I only shoot at woodland distances.
 
Last edited:
Brithunter said:
Ahhh actually target rifles such as used in teh palma match have long barrels for two reasons........................

1) they need the length to keep velocities up for that 155 Grn Palma bullet to still be super sonic at 1200 yards

2) For the sight radius.

The shot fall and tightness of group has more to do with barrel harmonics and nodes than length of barrel.
Click to expand...

Brit Hunter knows the score, all the top shots use this. Acuraccy is governed by so many things its why ballisitics is a science in its self. At the end of the day bullet stability in flight is govened by Barrel harmonics, nodes and the rifling at the very end of the barrel.
 
Once again I see names mentioned on D that it seems everyone is supposed to know. This time it was Dave Goffin :roll: Sorry dave never heard of you and had no clue as to what you did that makes you so special so did a bit of googling. Seem you run the BDS training. Which of course explains why I never heard of you.
 
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