16 Bore

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I like the 16 Bore. It seems to me to be the perfect compromise between a lightweight gun, with plenty of capability and they tend be elegantly balanced and styled. A light 12 is nice enough, but the actions can be a little bulky. I am not a great fan of the 20. They tend to be light with irritating level of recoil. And most side by sides have short stocks.

In my combination gun I have a 16 barrel which has proven very effective. I have been looking for a good side by side for quite a while.

I have looked at quite a few. Either been pretty expensive for what they are, or cast well right handed and just don’t fit. Cheaper ones have often been Belgian built fence posts. AYA’s are ok, but wanted something better.

I missed a nice T Ward a few months ago. Almost made for me. It had been sold to an international dealer for export. I did make an offer, but he had already sold it for twice what I offered to one of his clients in the US - probably over US $2k for a boxlock NE.

And then this turned up. A Webley & Scott retailed by George Gibbs of Bristol. Both names are on the barrels. And most of the boxlocks were made by Webley for the trade. Yes I would like a Scottish gun.

This one has been in storage for a long time. It was built in about 1937. Action is nice and tight. Bores are to the original measurements and wall thicknesses at 30+ thou. It has been badly stored - there is some light pitting on the outside of the barrels, and bluing is 65%. Stock is long and fits my 6ft frame. And straight enough for a left handed shot - and could easily be swept if needs be.

I didn’t have to pay very much for it, and even I do have barrels refreshed I am probably still in the money.

But as it is, its the sort of gun that will be ideal for pottering about and if it gets a bit wet or dropped in the marsh - its not the end of the world.

I will give it a gentle refresh. Already cleaned up the stock with Vodka and wire wool which has taken the layer of grime and sweat, and steamed out the worst of the dents. It has a good strong straight grained piece of wood. Not fancy but nice enough. Chokes need to be opened a bit for steel shot - lyevale make a 25gm 2 1/2” steel shot 16 bore cartridge - so future proofed.
 

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Very nice indeed. What length are the barrels? Looks like nice pre-war level of engraving. Serial number about 105,000??

HB
 
Very nice indeed. What length are the barrels? Looks like nice pre-war level of engraving. Serial number about 105,000??

HB
Barrels are 28”, Serial number is in 115xxx so according to Double Barreled Shotguns, High Grade Shotgun dates of production doublegunshop.com - shotgun gun firearm SxS Side-by-side its 1936 to 1939.

A very similar gun is up for sale on Vintage Guns - mine would have been made at the same time.
 
Very useful - weight about 6lbs 1 oz?? My 1946 Webley 600 Special (with ejectors) is s/no. 116, 3xx and I have a letter from Gallyons saying that it was delivered in December 1946. My hunch is that the action may have been made pre-war. Mine does not have any top extension, so I imagine yours is a Model 500, without digging out the catalogue reprint.

It worked very well in Ayrshire last month...

HB
 
I have these. The smaller frame gun, uppermost of the two, is 16 bore x 65mm. The larger identical is 12 bore x 65mm. The French Manufrance factory like the AYA factory did things right and used a 16 bore size action for a 16 bore sized gun. Both are nominally 27" barrels or metric equivalent. Monobloc system like on Beretta guns. I've also this Browning A-5 in the less common in UK proper 2 3/4" chambering. The Manufrance are both 1920s guns and both self-openers which use a "knock off" of Holland's spring tube system of 1922. Either that or Holland's is a knock off of the Manufrance system. My father's brother's father in law had a pair of 16 bore Boss. Sadly I never saw them nor handled them and this was anyway back in the 1960s. But I did myself until I sold them have a pair of single trigger self-openers in 16 bore x 70mm with 29" barrels made by Somerton Guns which were Arrietta guns in fact. Going forward there is a member of Pigeonwatch who is selling 16 bore wads, driving wad, over powder wad and undershot wad at a reasonable price.

MFx2.jpg

B16a400.jpg
 
I have these. The smaller frame gun, uppermost of the two, is 16 bore x 65mm. The larger identical is 12 bore x 65mm. The French Manufrance factory like the AYA factory did things right and used a 16 bore size action for a 16 bore sized gun. Both are nominally 27" barrels or metric equivalent. Monobloc system like on Beretta guns. I've also this Browning A-5 in the less common in UK proper 2 3/4" chambering. The Manufrance are both 1920s guns and both self-openers which use a "knock off" of Holland's spring tube system of 1922. Either that or Holland's is a knock off of the Manufrance system. My father's brother's father in law had a pair of 16 bore Boss. Sadly I never saw them nor handled them and this was anyway back in the 1960s. But I did myself until I sold them have a pair of single trigger self-openers in 16 bore x 70mm with 29" barrels made by Somerton Guns which were Arrietta guns in fact. Going forward there is a member of Pigeonwatch who is selling 16 bore wads, driving wad, over powder wad and undershot wad at a reasonable price.

View attachment 341705

View attachment 341707
Nice. The Sweet Sixteen Browning in particular:)

And I have just taken delivery of 250 16 bore 2 1/2” cartridges from Just Cartridges. Substantially cheaper than the 250 410 cartridges I also ordered.
 
Nice. The Sweet Sixteen Browning in particular:)
Ah! Not all things are equal nor what they seem. The "Sweet Sixteen" is the lightweight version of Browning's Auto-5 "Light Twelve". The gun I have is the standard weight sixteen bore so not marked as "Sweet Sixteen" just as the standard weight twelve bore is not marked as a "Light Twelve". It's confusing but whilst all "Sweet Sixteen" guns are Browninng Auto-5 sixteeen gauge guns not all Browning Auto-5 sixteen gauge guns are "Sweet Sixteen" guns! Here's a man that tells us the difference above and beyond the roll stamping on the receiver:

 
I like the 16 Bore. It seems to me to be the perfect compromise between a lightweight gun, with plenty of capability and they tend be elegantly balanced and styled. A light 12 is nice enough, but the actions can be a little bulky. I am not a great fan of the 20. They tend to be light with irritating level of recoil. And most side by sides have short stocks.

In my combination gun I have a 16 barrel which has proven very effective. I have been looking for a good side by side for quite a while.

I have looked at quite a few. Either been pretty expensive for what they are, or cast well right handed and just don’t fit. Cheaper ones have often been Belgian built fence posts. AYA’s are ok, but wanted something better.

I missed a nice T Ward a few months ago. Almost made for me. It had been sold to an international dealer for export. I did make an offer, but he had already sold it for twice what I offered to one of his clients in the US - probably over US $2k for a boxlock NE.

And then this turned up. A Webley & Scott retailed by George Gibbs of Bristol. Both names are on the barrels. And most of the boxlocks were made by Webley for the trade. Yes I would like a Scottish gun.

This one has been in storage for a long time. It was built in about 1937. Action is nice and tight. Bores are to the original measurements and wall thicknesses at 30+ thou. It has been badly stored - there is some light pitting on the outside of the barrels, and bluing is 65%. Stock is long and fits my 6ft frame. And straight enough for a left handed shot - and could easily be swept if needs be.

I didn’t have to pay very much for it, and even I do have barrels refreshed I am probably still in the money.

But as it is, its the sort of gun that will be ideal for pottering about and if it gets a bit wet or dropped in the marsh - its not the end of the world.

I will give it a gentle refresh. Already cleaned up the stock with Vodka and wire wool which has taken the layer of grime and sweat, and steamed out the worst of the dents. It has a good strong straight grained piece of wood. Not fancy but nice enough. Chokes need to be opened a bit for steel shot - lyevale make a 25gm 2 1/2” steel shot 16 bore cartridge - so future proofed.
Don't rush into having chokes bored out just yet, there are better options than steel coming to the market next season and lead is still available at the moment
 
16 bores make such elegant sbs - definitely my favorite as well. Sounds like a good find. Well done.
 
Don't rush into having chokes bored out just yet, there are better options than steel coming to the market next season and lead is still available at the moment
By my own measurements I think they 1/4 and 1/2 choke, but I not convinced by how accurate my calipers are. I need a proper measuring tool.
 
I love my AYA 16g SxS. I don’t know why, it’s not fancy, and it doesn’t fit me particularly well, but I seem to shoot it better than any of my other shotguns.

I need to measure the chokes at some point and see if I am doomed when the lead ban comes in.
 
No - products such as Hortanium are coming onto the market. And chance are they will be offered in the likes of 16, 28 and 410 which are small niche markets with few alternatives.
If they ever actually manage to find a production partner! 😂 apparently they’re still waiting for the call from a big manufacturer… been waiting a while I believe!

But would be nice if it did ever materialise of course
 
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