.17HMR Winchester ammo - is it working?

[The deer man]

My shooting buddy has old old batch he had in his safe for some time as well as new old batch he bought a few weeks ago and new new batch bought at the same time.
Rifle is an Anschutz 1517
I was with him when he did his side by side comparisons, there is no consistency between any of the old batch, accuracy is acceptable if you intend to body shoot rabbits but not good enough for headshots at 100yds
Thsre were around 3% case splits with both batches and one phut.
The new ammo was not tested as the bolt could not be closed on it and my mate was not going to force it, on examination a bright ring could be seen 2/3rds of the way around the case where the shoulder starts.

Ian.

Looks like FGYT was using the old CCI made WInchester ammo and if we are to get to the bottom of this and get a real accurate assessment of this problem we need to ensure we are talking about the correct ammo?!

I'll post again what the new Winchester made ammo looks like. . .

 

[hybridfiat]

20 years ago I was shooting pistols a lot and we had major problems with Winchester T22s. Misfires from every box. I believe that the cause was poor primer compound distribution in the rim of the cartridge. This happens at the point in production when the damp primer compound is dropped into the case and it is spun to distribute the compound. If there is any change in the consistency of the primer compound then the rim is not evenly filled. We could take the misfire rotate it and it would work. Not much use when the misfire leaves you 10 points down in a competition.
This put me off Winchester because they refused to own the problem despite dozens of shooters formally complaining.
Sounds like nothing has changed.

 

[The deer man]

20 years ago I was shooting pistols a lot and we had major problems with Winchester T22s. Misfires from every box. I believe that the cause was poor primer compound distribution in the rim of the cartridge. This happens at the point in production when the damp primer compound is dropped into the case and it is spun to distribute the compound. If there is any change in the consistency of the primer compound then the rim is not evenly filled. We could take the misfire rotate it and it would work. Not much use when the misfire leaves you 10 points down in a competition.
This put me off Winchester because they refused to own the problem despite dozens of shooters formally complaining.
Sounds like nothing has changed.

Yes I remember those days and used a lot of T22 myself but I wouldn't put it down exclusively to Winchester as I'm still turning cases for a second strike today and that would be with a variety of makes.

 

[FGYT]

I think you'll find that is the old Winchester ammo made by CCI.


You should be looking at a box like this which is the new ammo made by Winchester. . .
View attachment 58768

Thanks for that HAd assumed it was new stuff got it only a couple of months back and they said it had only come in recently

Will try again when i find the new stuff

 

[8x57]

Yes I remember those days and used a lot of T22 myself but I wouldn't put it down exclusively to Winchester as I'm still turning cases for a second strike today and that would be with a variety of makes.

+1 on that.
Can you also remember how bad Eley was too at the time. I used to belong to a pistol club that was a part of the ICI/Eley empire and we used to buy our Eley ammo at subsidised rates. Eley got so unreliable that we started buying CCI when that started coming into the country and what a breath of fresh air that was. How times have changed.

 

[The deer man]

+1 on that.
Can you also remember how bad Eley was too at the time. I used to belong to a pistol club that was a part of the ICI/Eley empire and we used to buy our Eley ammo at subsidised rates. Eley got so unreliable that we started buying CCI when that started coming into the country and what a breath of fresh air that was. How times have changed.

Yes I do and stopped using it, never worked very well in my .22 Beretta and Walther PP. Too much 'glue' on the bullets! Used T22 and CCI mostly.

 

[The deer man]

Thanks for that HAd assumed it was new stuff got it only a couple of months back and they said it had only come in recently

Will try again when i find the new stuff

Not entirely the gunshops fault but he should be up to date with what he's selling, so many aren't! I'd be having a few pleasant words with him!

 

[nun_hunter]

Shot my HMR today using a mix of Remmington and the new Winchesters as pictured above. Both groups were pretty bad at about 1.5" at 88m with only a tiny breeze. Both boxes of ammo have been in my cabinet in the loft for about a year or 18 months so possibly the fluctuation in temperature/humidity could effect them especially if the cases have non visible cracks to let moisture in??

Maybe I need a small safe in the wardrobe somewhere and get some fresh ammo in.

 

[finnbear270]

Why not just face it?, .17HMR you are in denial!!!!!!

 

[nun_hunter]

Is the .22WMR a viable alternative for 150 yard point and shoot like the HMR though and is the WMR ammo any more consistent?

 

[FGYT]

Not entirely the gunshops fault but he should be up to date with what he's selling, so many aren't! I'd be having a few pleasant words with him!

I doubt they know of the change of manufacture and may will have got the delivery from the distributor
they just order 17HMR Winchester and as long as thats what turns up thats fine

was there a massive safety recall of all the old Ammo ???



dosnt really matter as the Hday stuff shoots fine

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

its such a shame the 17hmr will always be the "little cartridge that should have been" some much promise but so little delivered in the end

 

[25 Sharps]

Is the .22WMR a viable alternative for 150 yard point and shoot like the HMR though and is the WMR ammo any more consistent?

Yes, well point and shoot to 130 yards with a 95 yard zero, never had an issue with ammo in mine, hits harder, less wind drift, more muzzle energy and ricochets less in my experience!

 

[Effnjeff]

Very sure! Like any day shooting at paper it might not be done every time but certainly capable of it and never over an inch.

I've had three HMR rifles over the last eleven years, and tried all the ammo and only had really consistent sub MOA accuracy from the orginal 20gn HP ammo when it came out in IIRC about 2005ish.
The recent Winchester 17gn ammo is certainly better for me than any other current stuff, but I doubt in my rifle it would be consistent sub MOA. I was hoping that the new 20gn Win stuff might be just the ticket, but yet to find any.
I really like HMR as it fits a niche perfectly for me, but lack of ammo choice and quality is frustrating. I would gladly pay a premium for 'match' grade ammo to get back the accuracy that the cartridge is capable of.

 

[Muir]

Yes, well point and shoot to 130 yards with a 95 yard zero, never had an issue with ammo in mine, hits harder, less wind drift, more muzzle energy and ricochets less in my experience!

With the new 30 grain loads the 22WMR is off the back burner. Even the 'old' 40 grain loads at 1910 fps had more energy than the 17 grn HMR once past 70 yards and retained that advantage out to 200. CCI and Federal seem to under rate the 22WMR's velocities. At 70F I was chronographing Federal 30 grain at 2360 fps, and CCI 30 grain TNT at about the same. CCI VMax 30 grain about the same. Winchester Supreme was only 30 r 40 fps behind those three. Remington Premier, tho at 2200 fps, fires that beautiful 33 grain V-Max. I remember that our JAYB favored that one on his last trip to The Colonies. Some 150 yard kills on rabbits were pretty common.~Muir

 

[The deer man]

I think they were £11/50 however a new delivery is coming in this week so I'll confirm that later.

Winchester .17HMR Varmint HV £11.00 / 50

 

[Leadwasp]

I bought a couple of boxes of Winchester in sufferance as I couldn't get any Federal. However so far it seems acceptable in my rifle to the extent that I'm not grumbling about it anymore. It shoots slightly to the left of the Feds AND I'm pretty sure I've actually seen a couple fly (??).

The Deer Man is getting good value.....I'm sure (from memory) I was stiffed over £15.

 

[Effnjeff]

I get mine for a tenner locally.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I think this could be a really useful thread if we can stick to reporting on the accuracy, consistency and reliability of recently-manufactured Winchester .17HMR ammunition, especially if such reports include batch numbers.

If it turns into a general HMR thread, or even a price-comparison thread, there'll be so much off-topic filler to wade through that we'll never find out whether the new Winchester stuff is any better than anything else.

Oh lord... I think I've just had a vision of the future!

Reminder to self: The OP proposes and the SD disposes.

 

[The deer man]

Ok so lets get back to the thread!

Yesterday we had a range afternoon with lots of rifles notably .17HMR. We used Hornady, CCI, 'OLD' Winchester Supreme and 'NEW' Winchester VARMINT HV.
You guessed it squib rounds from the first three types and sub 1" groups from the 'NEW' Winchester VARMINT HV which performed flawlessly at 100 yards.

A lot of empty boxes later there is no doubt in my mind that the new Winchester ammo is good and if it's not accurate perhaps the rifle or rifleman needs to be checked!

It appears that so far there have been no negatives posted about the new Winchester ammo, I hope a good sign. If you do post about Winchester please ensure you are referring to the new ammo made by Winchester as per my previous post.