243 fazination???

[MARCBO]

+1! I must be another lucky one here in Somerset too!

Must be the star alignment, akin to "even a blind piggy finds an acorn sometimes".

Anyway, a great gun philosopher once said something similiar to the following "The best 243 is the one you left on the shelf when you picked up you new 6.5..." Can't remember the name exactly, believe it started with an "M" and it was started sometime in early 2015.

SS

 

[xavierdoc]

"even a blind piggy finds an acorn sometimes".

SS

Interesting- so you're likening a .243Win to a blind piggy...

Truffle hunters know just how good pigs are at finding things with their noses, so presumably a blind piggy would find lots of acorns...

Ergo, MARCBO is a closet fan of the .243?!

Methinks the lady doth protest too much!

 

[Mungo]

Or he thinks roe deer are the size of walruses...

 

[pablo.222]

Or he thinks roe deer are the size of walruses...

Hahahaha. They do get rather large you know.

 

[willie_gunn]

I have an idea.

Let's start a thread about the best calibre for whitetail, mule deer or grizzly bear.

That way we can parade our ignorance of their quarry species as well.

 

[Hereford]

I think Marcbo's on to something you know - if i could just get a .50cal on my ticket there would never be any doubt and I'd save so much time butchering and jointing up!

Might get bored of stew all the time though

 

[MARCBO]

I have an idea.

Let's start a thread about the best calibre for whitetail, mule deer or grizzly bear.

That way we can parade our ignorance of their quarry species as well.

Making comments about my knowledge without knowing me shows a good bit of ignorance. Lived in Germany over 20 years and shot a great many Reh (Roe) in Bayern and BW along with a couple of Hirsch.

SS

 

[willie_gunn]

Making comments about my knowledge without knowing me shows a good bit of ignorance. Lived in Germany over 20 years and shot a great many Reh (Roe) in Bayern and BW along with a couple of Hirsch.

SS

I know that, it's in your very first post - it was almost 24 years IIRC? But I wasn't talking about Germany, I was talking about the UK.

What I don't understand is the one-man campaign you're waging to try to convince us that the caliber that probably accounts for more deer than any other in the UK is not fit for purpose, when the evidence that it does work is, quite literally, before our eyes. For the most common species in Southern Britain the 243 is more than adequate. You may not like it but you may as well live with it, as none of your name-calling is going to change it.

Your persistence is admirable, but your constant denigration of both the caliber and those who use it is.....boring.

 

[pablo.222]

I know that, it's in your very first post - it was almost 24 years IIRC? But I wasn't talking about Germany, I was talking about the UK.

What I don't understand is the one-man campaign you're waging to try to convince us that the caliber that probably accounts for more deer than any other in the UK is not fit for purpose, when the evidence that it does work is, quite literally, before our eyes. For the most common species in Southern Britain the 243 is more than adequate. You may not like it but you may as well live with it, as none of your name-calling is going to change it.

Your persistence is admirable, but your constant denigration of both the caliber and those who use it is.....boring.

Nail has just been hit on the head ad say willie gun!

 

[sikadog]

Dont you ever think someone is winding you up

 

[pablo.222]

Dont you ever think someone is winding you up

Never crossed my mind.

But what ever he has on his hook is not really working because he keeps coming back looking for bites without much sucess.

 

[willie_gunn]

Dont you ever think someone is winding you up

Yes, frequently

But those who dish it out have to be prepared to take it as well.

 

[MARCBO]

Yes, frequently

But those who dish it out have to be prepared to take it as well.

Ah yes, learned that in military service as well and face to face at that.


SS

 

[Greener Jim]

Gonna pitch in again for laughs

I must admit, I agree with Marcbo on certain points. 243 Win was developed as a varmint round and it is low on recoil making it popular with kids and women.
I would like to counter however. Firstly the recoil (or lack there of). Some guys don't want to suffer recoil if they are culling large numbers of deer, plus lack of recoil only helps towards easier attainable accuracy.
Now on to the varmint round point. Yes, can't be denied that was its original purpose. I would like to counter again but this time in bullet points (you know, just to make it fun):
1. This seems irrelevant if energy is sufficient (it is) and proper bullets of sound construction are available and used (they are)
2. The original use of a calibre is neither here nor there when it comes to its modern usage. 30-06 was designed for people but has been very successful. Hemingway used his on Rhino. My 45-120 was designed for Bison (even though it never did in any great numbers) but I will be using it on deer and boar much like its smaller brother is in your neck of the woods.
3. Like always, shot placement is key. A certain Mr Bell dispatched many elephants with a .270, even if it wasn't his main weapon. It just goes to show that placement is vital

Also, with whom did you serve mate?

 

[Hereford]

Also, with whom did you serve mate?

It's got to be Field Artillery if there's any justice in the world!

 

[MARCBO]

Gonna pitch in again for laughs

I must admit, I agree with Marcbo on certain points. 243 Win was developed as a varmint round and it is low on recoil making it popular with kids and women.
I would like to counter however. Firstly the recoil (or lack there of). Some guys don't want to suffer recoil if they are culling large numbers of deer, plus lack of recoil only helps towards easier attainable accuracy.
Now on to the varmint round point. Yes, can't be denied that was its original purpose. I would like to counter again but this time in bullet points (you know, just to make it fun):
1. This seems irrelevant if energy is sufficient (it is) and proper bullets of sound construction are available and used (they are)
2. The original use of a calibre is neither here nor there when it comes to its modern usage. 30-06 was designed for people but has been very successful. Hemingway used his on Rhino. My 45-120 was designed for Bison (even though it never did in any great numbers) but I will be using it on deer and boar much like its smaller brother is in your neck of the woods.
3. Like always, shot placement is key. A certain Mr Bell dispatched many elephants with a .270, even if it wasn't his main weapon. It just goes to show that placement is vital

Also, with whom did you serve mate?

Interesting points but to be countered.

1. Obtaining the required energy with light bullets requires higher velocity that leads to unneccessary tissue destruction. A bullet that may perform well with controlled expansion at one velocity may explode on impact if driven faster or fail to open if driven slower. Unfortunately the hunter does not have the ability to know at what range game may appear so impact volicity can vary considerable especially for the "snipers" here.

2. Despite a cartridge (not caliber) being designed for a specific purpose and often being flexible for others many are not. You may certainly shoot rabbits with your 45-120 (why are you not shooting a buffalo era correct cartridge like the 45 2 7/8s) and it will do the job. On the otherhand you certainly would not want to shoot Bison with a 243W.

3. Yes, shot placement is very important but placement will not overcome use of an inadequate cartridge. Same for reduced recoil. I believe Mr. Bell (WDM?) was famous for using a 275 Rigby (aka 7mm Mauser) but he did not rely on that cartridge alone. Believe he also had a .450/400 Jeffrey double rifle as well. BTW: he was taking brain shots shooting 175gr solids and was not relying on expansion at all. Ever shoot a Roe through the chest with a non-expanding bullet from a 243W?

Mostly 1/10th Special Forces Group and Special Operations Command Europe.

SS

 

[Greener Jim]

And a counter counter

1. Yes a lighter bullet must be driven faster to achieve the required energy and yes some bullets may not perform as desired at close or distant targets. This unfortunately is unavoidable. As I know you are aware, all expanding bullets have a window they perform best in regards expansion. I personally don't feel that velocity is the answer to "what makes a cartidge great?". Meat damage being my main objection. The difference in drop is negligible once you know your rifle some.
The beauty of a popular round such as the .243 Win is that pretty much every bullet has been tried in the UK, on our game and at most sensible ranges. This wealth of knowledge leads people to choose their bullet with the amassed experience of several.
The less said about 'sniping' the better
2. Can't believe I said calibre, I must be tired today. It's a pet peeve when people don't say cartridge when it's appropriate. I would certainly not want to be anywhere near a bison shot with a .243, not my idea of fun.
Ever tried finding a 45-70 in the UK let alone bigger? The choice ain't great I can tell you
3. I must be VERY tired, I thought I'd typed .275 not .270. He did indeed use a Jeffrey double some (if not most) of the time.
He wasn't relying on expansion that much is true. I believe the idea still stands though as he was using what he was the most accurate and nimble with for the very specialised and dangerous form of hunting her used it for.
My point being, there may be better cartridges out there but .243 Win isn't inadequate for the majority of our species (although not all), it is just at the bottom of the power pile.
It does the job, no doubt about it. Those who want bigger, go bigger. Those that don't, just pimp up their .243.

Personally, I'd go .358 Win. But then again I am compensating....I am in the Navy after all

 

[MARCBO]

And a counter counter

1. Yes a lighter bullet must be driven faster to achieve the required energy and yes some bullets may not perform as desired at close or distant targets. This unfortunately is unavoidable. As I know you are aware, all expanding bullets have a window they perform best in regards expansion. I personally don't feel that velocity is the answer to "what makes a cartidge great?". Meat damage being my main objection. The difference in drop is negligible once you know your rifle some.
The beauty of a popular round such as the .243 Win is that pretty much every bullet has been tried in the UK, on our game and at most sensible ranges. This wealth of knowledge leads people to choose their bullet with the amassed experience of several.
The less said about 'sniping' the better
2. Can't believe I said calibre, I must be tired today. It's a pet peeve when people don't say cartridge when it's appropriate. I would certainly not want to be anywhere near a bison shot with a .243, not my idea of fun.
Ever tried finding a 45-70 in the UK let alone bigger? The choice ain't great I can tell you
3. I must be VERY tired, I thought I'd typed .275 not .270. He did indeed use a Jeffrey double some (if not most) of the time.
He wasn't relying on expansion that much is true. I believe the idea still stands though as he was using what he was the most accurate and nimble with for the very specialised and dangerous form of hunting her used it for.
My point being, there may be better cartridges out there but .243 Win isn't inadequate for the majority of our species (although not all), it is just at the bottom of the power pile.
It does the job, no doubt about it. Those who want bigger, go bigger. Those that don't, just pimp up their .243.

Personally, I'd go .358 Win. But then again I am compensating....I am in the Navy after all

Ok, the counter counter counter.

1. Minimal is minimal and should only be selected when there is no other choice such as when the recoil from a more sutiabe cartridge is too much. The other option is to shot paper.

2. Reloading solves the issue of obtaiining bigger stuff but then again I believe obtaining 308 in required quantities is possible in the UK or am I wrong?

3. WDM had significantly more experience than any of us so just because he did it is not an excuse to not use a more than "adequate" cartridge.

SS

 

[Mungo]

I really want to get to the bottom of this: are you seriously suggesting that .243 is inadequate for roe deer?

 

[MARCBO]

I really want to get to the bottom of this: are you seriously suggesting that .243 is inadequate for roe deer?

I am saying it is a poor cartridge for general deer use, perhaps as a fellow UKer said "adequate" for Roe but certainly not for larger deer. Best suited for varmints and the like. In my opening post I said that if you could not take what you were hunting with a 223 it was time to step up to a 30 caliber.

SS