243v .308
- Thread starter yanik101
- Start date
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
One day we will test the effectiveness of all centrefire deer legal rifles on SD members. I don’t we will get many volunteers as pretty much any rifle from 243 to 30/06 will do pretty much the same job.
Bullet choice / type probably has more effect on the efficacy of the killing effect than the weight and diameter of the bullet and cartridge from which it is shot.
308 is very effective, but so is the 7.’x57, 280, 270, 6.5 whatever, 25-06, and 243. And most UK deer are really not that big that a well placed 243 will make them regret not having spent more time partying and with their family’s
Bullet choice / type probably has more effect on the efficacy of the killing effect than the weight and diameter of the bullet and cartridge from which it is shot.
308 is very effective, but so is the 7.’x57, 280, 270, 6.5 whatever, 25-06, and 243. And most UK deer are really not that big that a well placed 243 will make them regret not having spent more time partying and with their family’s
The disadvantage of the creedmoor for the non-reloader is the cost of ammunition which can be up around £2.50-3.00 per round, this does make practice very expensive - if I didn't reload I'd not shoot half of the calibres that I do!
Provided your RFD stocks it and your rifle likes PPU ammoYanik101 - as you can see everyone will have a different opinion about this.
The simple answer, and all you really need to know can be summed up as follows;
Get the best of both worlds with a 7mm08PPU ammo is cheap and effective.
Woodsy
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is true.
It may just be a coincidence but I’ve recently heard from a few 7mm08 users that all find the cheap PPU 140s shoot really nicely in their rifles. One guy told me he likes it so much he has given up reloading and just uses PPU in his 7mm08. I know all rifles are different but it has made me wonder if perhaps the 7mm08 is in general less fussy about ammo than others...
Yanik, the cost of ammo is not a good reason to select one calibre over another, when you haven't even got a rifle yet.
Instead, you many want to plan out how you are going to work up to deer stalking. I would really recommend taking up air rifle shooting at least and if you have space at home, you can indeed do it safely in your back garden.
If you have one nearby, you could also think about joining something like the local Army/Navy/Air Force Cadets or, if you have a detachment at your school, the Combined Cadet Force. You will be able to shoot .22 and .223 rifles there in due course and will be taught the fundamentals of marksmanship, as well as all the other good things these organisations have to offer.
I understand you're keen on the idea of stalking but you might want to think about the wider shooting community as well. Target rifle clubs/clay clubs as a teenager are easier to join than getting permissions on land to stalk deer (with no experience/DSC/insurance etc).
Instead, you many want to plan out how you are going to work up to deer stalking. I would really recommend taking up air rifle shooting at least and if you have space at home, you can indeed do it safely in your back garden.
If you have one nearby, you could also think about joining something like the local Army/Navy/Air Force Cadets or, if you have a detachment at your school, the Combined Cadet Force. You will be able to shoot .22 and .223 rifles there in due course and will be taught the fundamentals of marksmanship, as well as all the other good things these organisations have to offer.
I understand you're keen on the idea of stalking but you might want to think about the wider shooting community as well. Target rifle clubs/clay clubs as a teenager are easier to join than getting permissions on land to stalk deer (with no experience/DSC/insurance etc).
Possibly, I’ve only used it in 6.5x55, it is ok, about 1.5” at 100 yards but with ‘good’ factory ammo or homeloads it’s capable of half that, or better.
Woodsy
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% that with homeloads or more expensive factory ammo you’ll get tighter groups than with PPU. But it’s £17 a box and shoots well in my rifle; I like it. The deer are not so fond of it!
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
@yanik101 The better one is the one that the rifle you can afford, and that fits you well is chambered in.
The rest of the ideas and opinions on this thread, though they may highlight real issues, are secondary concerns.
When I got interested in stalking I was in a similar situation to yours, I had no friends or family who to help me along, and I had a minimal budget.
I would suggest doing two things (don't know what lockdown restrictions will do to this advice as I'm not in the UK anymore).
1) Handle lots of rifles, including ones you cannot afford. Get a sense of what they feel like in the shoulder and how comfortable you are cycling them, learn the safety so that you can make an intelligent decision about whether it will work for you.
2) Factor in the cost of a cheap reloading set-up. If you find a rifle that works for you, but it's in an unfashionable chambering (i.e. it's not a 243, 308, 270, 6.5x55 or 6.5CM) then this is the one area reloading might genuinely save you some money. Take This one for example, it's the cost of a day out culling, and 25-06 will do everything in the UK quite nicely, from foxes to Sika stags, but I would want to have my own supply of ammo, and the knowledge that once I'd worked up a good load I'd always be able to get it again. I'm not telling you to deliberately seek out an oddball calibre, just don't be scared off getting a rifle in one if the price is right and it's a good fit for you physically. I'm not even telling you to buy a reloading set-up, just budget for it, as it will increase the number of rifles you can consider owning.
Anyway - there it is, the ergonomics of the rifle matter 100% more than the chambering (so long as it's deer legal). Any halfway decent RFD will hold a rifle for you whilst you get a variation/application in.
The rest of the ideas and opinions on this thread, though they may highlight real issues, are secondary concerns.
When I got interested in stalking I was in a similar situation to yours, I had no friends or family who to help me along, and I had a minimal budget.
I would suggest doing two things (don't know what lockdown restrictions will do to this advice as I'm not in the UK anymore).
1) Handle lots of rifles, including ones you cannot afford. Get a sense of what they feel like in the shoulder and how comfortable you are cycling them, learn the safety so that you can make an intelligent decision about whether it will work for you.
2) Factor in the cost of a cheap reloading set-up. If you find a rifle that works for you, but it's in an unfashionable chambering (i.e. it's not a 243, 308, 270, 6.5x55 or 6.5CM) then this is the one area reloading might genuinely save you some money. Take This one for example, it's the cost of a day out culling, and 25-06 will do everything in the UK quite nicely, from foxes to Sika stags, but I would want to have my own supply of ammo, and the knowledge that once I'd worked up a good load I'd always be able to get it again. I'm not telling you to deliberately seek out an oddball calibre, just don't be scared off getting a rifle in one if the price is right and it's a good fit for you physically. I'm not even telling you to buy a reloading set-up, just budget for it, as it will increase the number of rifles you can consider owning.
Anyway - there it is, the ergonomics of the rifle matter 100% more than the chambering (so long as it's deer legal). Any halfway decent RFD will hold a rifle for you whilst you get a variation/application in.
@yanik101 , having now seen your previous posts about being 14 and not having shooters in the family, I have similar thoughts to @bfltd0 .
I wouldn't want to talk you out of getting into stalking if that's something you'd like to do but maybe have a think about the practicalities.
Do you have an adult in your household who would be willing to take responsibility for you as a young shooter? I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but you are too young to buy a rifle or ammunition. You can hold an FAC onto which you can have a rifle and ammo gifted. That in itself becomes a bit of an issue as I'm not sure how you'd get a rifle or ammo onto your FAC from an RFD if you don't have an intermediary (such as a parent with a FAC) to buy it and then gift it to you.
I also don't think you can use an estate rifle until you're 17.
So, to stalk you are going to need an FAC and to have your own rifle.
I'd suggest you speak to your local licensing authority to test the water, I wouldn't be surprised if they would be wary of granting an under-18 an FAC unless there is someone on the family/known to the family who can provide guidance on rifle use and who can be partially responsible for the rifle when not in use (HO guidance talks about underage shooters having a cabinet which requires 2 different keys so that the FAC holder can have 1 of the keys and a parent, guardian etc can have the other) . When I got my FAC at 17 the FEO was certainly happier about my application on realising that (a) I clearly had somewhere to use it, and (b) my Dad was a shooter and so could mentor me - he passed comment on this.
It would be worth mentioning to them that because you cannot use an estate rifle the only way you can stalk is by getting your own FAC.
If your force take the view that they might grant you an FAC for booked stalking, I think your calibre choice will be made for you and they will say you're having a .243 (they pretty much do this to adults who have been shooting other disciplines for years).
You might be better off getting into airgun shooting, clay shooting, or joining an HO approved range. You'll find that you are less restricted by legislation and will get a chance to meet people who can open doors for your when you're a bit older. With that experience, I think you'd get an easier time if you apply for your own stalking rifle at 18.
I'm really not trying to talk you out of it, if you want to do this enough you may be able to, I just wonder if there is a bit more groundwork to be done on the practicalities before worrying too much about what rifle or calibre.
I wouldn't want to talk you out of getting into stalking if that's something you'd like to do but maybe have a think about the practicalities.
Do you have an adult in your household who would be willing to take responsibility for you as a young shooter? I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but you are too young to buy a rifle or ammunition. You can hold an FAC onto which you can have a rifle and ammo gifted. That in itself becomes a bit of an issue as I'm not sure how you'd get a rifle or ammo onto your FAC from an RFD if you don't have an intermediary (such as a parent with a FAC) to buy it and then gift it to you.
I also don't think you can use an estate rifle until you're 17.
So, to stalk you are going to need an FAC and to have your own rifle.
I'd suggest you speak to your local licensing authority to test the water, I wouldn't be surprised if they would be wary of granting an under-18 an FAC unless there is someone on the family/known to the family who can provide guidance on rifle use and who can be partially responsible for the rifle when not in use (HO guidance talks about underage shooters having a cabinet which requires 2 different keys so that the FAC holder can have 1 of the keys and a parent, guardian etc can have the other) . When I got my FAC at 17 the FEO was certainly happier about my application on realising that (a) I clearly had somewhere to use it, and (b) my Dad was a shooter and so could mentor me - he passed comment on this.
It would be worth mentioning to them that because you cannot use an estate rifle the only way you can stalk is by getting your own FAC.
If your force take the view that they might grant you an FAC for booked stalking, I think your calibre choice will be made for you and they will say you're having a .243 (they pretty much do this to adults who have been shooting other disciplines for years).
You might be better off getting into airgun shooting, clay shooting, or joining an HO approved range. You'll find that you are less restricted by legislation and will get a chance to meet people who can open doors for your when you're a bit older. With that experience, I think you'd get an easier time if you apply for your own stalking rifle at 18.
I'm really not trying to talk you out of it, if you want to do this enough you may be able to, I just wonder if there is a bit more groundwork to be done on the practicalities before worrying too much about what rifle or calibre.
No that’s fair one, my mate’s Brno ZK600 shoots it inside an inch and he’s over the moon with it. To be fair I shoot S&B in 6.5 creedmoor which is a similar price point, shoots well but it is a bit messy damage wise
Feeding home loads is miles cheaper.......
if you count the cost of a GM Muntjac> CWD> Roe which people seek then the round is in all cases the cheapest part of shooting.
Yes, home loading is cheaper but can an under 18 be in possession of tubs of powder? Also he is probably not going to be after a good medal anything to start out, I don’t go out after medals!
Still a big fan of the 308 although I have been hunting with a Creedmoor since a while. Taking a shot at running deer where shot placement is not always perfect Hilar or spine then the 308 wins every time. Newer 168/178 ELDX in 30 cal have fantastic BC and increase the range of the 308 . If one does not shoot deer over 400m the 6.5 CM does not have much for it. The 243 is great as a crossover fox small deer cartridge, realistically barrel twist generally suits 80-90gr better, perfect for Roe or Sika calves. The 80-90gr /243 BC is generally lower, starts fast sheds speed quicker. Bullet might be explosive at close range maybe the opposite at longer range.
I have also seen 308 being too much for beginners who struggle with the recoil.
One just needs to adapt to whatever rifle/cartridge one is using.
edi
I have also seen 308 being too much for beginners who struggle with the recoil.
One just needs to adapt to whatever rifle/cartridge one is using.
edi
Agree with this, I was an air cadet from 13 to 18 or so and got some really good experience shooting a variety of rifles on different ranges as well as learning the right safety best practices and even supported teaching it to the younger guys coming through the ATC
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Engine room then no difference either one works 
Better is subjective. Both work for about anything reasonable, I wont pursue bear with a 243,.I might with a 308 IF nothing more suited was at hand. To be honest bear will never be pursued by me. Both deer specie along with elk a 243 and a good projectile would be fine with me. I wont ever have the points required for moose in my lifetime.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
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