.270 purchase

[JC275]

Yes much better to pay more for the new Sportsmatch lumps or alloy after they are new/modern so simply must be better mustn't they!

Nope unless it's of new /modern production it just ain't no god after all you have read it here on the inter-web so it MUST be true ...................................... Sheesh!

No,I agree, I wouldn't buy Sportsmatch alloy junk either!

By the way, my experience isn't quite limited by what I've read on the internet how about you?, are you still a cyber shooter or have the Police given you your firearms back?

Lets face it, you were always going to come back at anyone that dared to question the supremacy of anything with PH stamped on the side. I admire your brand loyalty but lets be honest, they were the Tikka T3's (that you so despise) of their day and that day was 25 years ago.

If someone still has one in the cupboard and it works then great, good luck to them. If someone can pick one up for £100 and it works then again, good luck to them. Should anyone pay £500+ for one? Of course not.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

To suggest that barrels DON'T wear out is ridiculous - they are merely obeying the laws of physics which we cannot change. Sure, there are many factors which will affect the rate at which this happens - but it will happen!! The only ones that don't wear out are the ones that sit in the corner somewhere (along with their owners) and don't get used! Modern powders and cleaning products have undoubtedly helped, but the underlying physics remains the same. This may well have been in a corner somewhere unused and fall into this category. However, as has been stated, this type and age of rifle and calibre was the choice of many professionals and may have seen an awful lot of use. The only way to tell, is to get it checked by someone that knows what they are looking for. It may well have passed some in store 'safety-tests', but that won't tell you if it is worn out!
As an example, my brother bought a very similar rifle to this in .308 when he started out. It shot fine for a while and then went very 'random'!! After checking out all the normal causes, he took it to a decent riflesmith to get it looked at. The riflesmith ended up putting a disc cutter through the barrel as it was dangerously worn!! It was not worth re-barrelling such a rifle and proved to be an expensive lesson learned!
The rifle you are looking at may well be fine, but all I would say is to get qualified person to confirm this before you part with your money. With your family situation as described, I'm guessing it would not be a mistake you would wish to make?
MS

 

[Tulloch]

I am taking everything on board guys thank you all

 

[enfieldspares]

Whilst one may ignore fashion whilst buying one cannot if one then needs to sell on the rifle at a later time and that may very well impact on what you get back for it. It is not going to be much benefit to upgrade to a more expensive rifle later if the "allowed value" on the P-H that you paid £ 450 is only a paltry £ 100 or less.

I looked at Holt's archive to see what they had in their archives for various P-H rifles in .270 WCF. There are six pages of various P-H rifles available. Some .270 WCF and some other calibres. Their search facility won't allow a calibre specific search.

But in calibre .270 WCF the following twenty five P-H rifles achieved as results:

£ 127, £ 201, £ 65, £ 150, £ 104, £ 150, UNSOLD, £ 53, £ 65, £ 77, £ 80, £ 80, £ 102, £ 100, £ 77, £ 92, £ 180, UNSOLD, £ 50, £ 55, UNSOLD, £ 70, UNSOLD, £ 85, £ 80, £ 120, UNSOLD, £ 105, £ 200 and £ 189

So the highest EVER price is recorded as £ 201 and the lowest ever price as £ 50. When I used to deal in these things that meant that I knew that if I took one in as a PX that I'd never likely ever sell it at more than the high price of £ 201. But that I also never see it make less than £ 50.

But the average price (and don't forget that a lot of these in thes sales had 'scopes and mounts) was £ 106.25 and that is from twenty-five rifles. So pretty accurate as an indication of value. Then some deduct the fact that it is screwed and tapped and arrive at a value.Others would on the other hand increase its worth because of it being screwed and tapped and arrive at a value.

But as a trade in when you come to sell it? Most dealers would offer you £ 75 for the rifle (hoping to sell it on for £ 150 retail or realise £ 100 at auction less commission).

And the 'scope and mounts would be junked on eBay or at auction as you would not want to have them come back if they packed in shortly after sale to an across the counter customer. Too much risk and potential loss of goodwill for no profit.

On the silencer I have been out of this game for over ten years so have no idea at all of its worth or re-sale value.

Lastly my experience of P-H sporting rifles is that the chambers can be somewhat loose compared with chambers of other similar era rifles of the same calibre. Certainly you'll find that chambers on BRNO ZKK rifles f that period seem to be not as loose as on same era P-H rifles.

My fear for the OP is that whilst it may seem a good bargain it may not be when he comes to dispose of it. My advice would be to look in a wider search. Lord! I put some Redfiled/Leupold turn in mounts on eBay and didn't get a bidder for them at under £ 10! So maybe buy a bare rifle and get the mounts and rings off eBay or through the Forum here.

 

[bewsher500]

no need to get the handbags out girls.

Highly unlikely the rifle is anything other than serviceable with sub 1" accuracy
they just don't get shot out!

ask him is he would sell it without the scope and mod
trouble is no dealer will dip below £300-400 for a bare PH

you can find them privately in good nick

I would personally buy a beaten up tried and tested M98 PH for a couple of hundred quid over saving my money to buy some plastic crap at the bottom end of the market range.

T3's, XBolts, some Howas, etc all do the job but they don't do it twice or three times better than a well made "metal" rifle. They also look like something my 9 year old picks up in Toys'R'Us with the amount of plastic on them

Parker Hales are not fashionable. thats a good thing in my book. I don't go for form over function and I like a bit of wood and metal over plastic dildo stocks and plastic magazines and bottom "metal"

The cartridge is a good one and reloading for it can be done cheaply down to 50-60p a round if you shop around for components/powders etc

rifle and cartridge choice aside that package is overpriced
even if you flipped the mod for £100, the rings for £50, the scope for £75 (its not worth any more) you are still paying over the odds for a PH

shop around.
you should get a rifle privately for £2-300 tops

 

[JC275]

One point that I probably didn't make very clear is that every time I go to a range or DSC1 test day I see people use 20+ rounds to 'check' the zero of some old (or sometimes new!) piece of junk. At factory ammo prices each session equals 10%-20% of the value of the whole set up! That can't make sense in anyones book?

Another point worth making is that I very rarely see true 'sub moa' accuracy from any rifles even my own unless I'm using rear bag etc! It simply doesn't happen in the real world!

In conclusion, my advice remains the same, save up, wait a year, use estate rifles then buy a good quality secondhand Sako.

 

[enfieldspares]

Agreed. I paid £ 250 for this P-Hale M81 at auction. And that INCLUDED the Zeiss 'scope and the Redfield mounts and rings.

View attachment 39320 [TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: mmhide_bc_resultstext"]PARKER HALE
A .270 BOLT-ACTION SPORTING RIFLE
24-inch barrel with ramp fore sight, the receiver mounted with a Zeiss Diatal-z 6x42 telescopic sight, bolt with sliding side safety, magazine with hinged base plate, recoil stud, the half length figured stock with pistol grip and recoil pad, 14-inch pull, 9lb. 8oz., nitro proof

The rifle appears little used.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: mmhide_bc_resultstext"]
Sold for £250 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Tulloch]

In conclusion, my advice remains the same, save up, wait a year, use estate rifles then buy a good quality secondhand Sako.

wish i was that easy lol

 

[JC275]

wish i was that easy lol

Fair point fella, I don’t mean to comment on your particular circumstances, my advice was meant generally.

 

[Tulloch]

Fair point fella, I don’t mean to comment on your particular circumstances, my advice was meant generally.

Am not at all skint or destitute lol If I was I would not be thinking about buying a rifle just not willing to go overly expensive for something for work or shooting at night, I Am being realistic I am 34 with a young family and I enjoy shooting but I am not going to put everything I have aside over a rifle.


My idea was simple find a decent cheap budget package that shoots straight, All the advice given I trully have taken on board and my options are always open,


I put down three possibles at the beginning of this thread not just P-H and also I know 1995rs has a really good rifle for sale, giving myself til end of the month to get one, and to be honest I am a fussy bugger


All brilliant advice from you guys and obviously the reason I asked is because you guys have a lot more experience in this than I do so I am so very glad of the advice. If I had my choice I be paying fr £2100 package by SAKO or TIKKA and Grahams or Macleods be cashing my money into the bank lol


I think this is the problem with the sport and the industry in a whole, if your not lucky enough to be on an estate and have access to estate equipment you have to put a small fortune on equipment that most people these days just cannot afford. Clothing and boots = £200 - £300 + , decent lamp min £150 , fox calls £20 , Spotting scope £100 s/h , Bino's - infinite and thats all before you buy rifle - scope - mod - bipod... You are talking 5 grand thats half of the average earnings for some people a year driving about in the back of your vehicle everytime you sit in a ditch lol


So in the end I am being careful and taking all your advice on board

 

[1995rs]

Tulloch, after our Pm'S I have added that I will let the rifle go with a T8. You can have my Browning Eurobolt, mounts, 1" rings, T8 and the boss (muzzle break) for £475 delivered by RFD. . I really doubt you will find a better deal than that. It needs a home as I am just about to order a new rifle. All the best Rich.

 

[Brithunter]

No,I agree, I wouldn't buy Sportsmatch alloy junk either!

By the way, my experience isn't quite limited by what I've read on the internet how about you?, are you still a cyber shooter or have the Police given you your firearms back?

Lets face it, you were always going to come back at anyone that dared to question the supremacy of anything with PH stamped on the side. I admire your brand loyalty but lets be honest, they were the Tikka T3's (that you so despise) of their day and that day was 25 years ago.

If someone still has one in the cupboard and it works then great, good luck to them. If someone can pick one up for £100 and it works then again, good luck to them. Should anyone pay £500+ for one? Of course not.

Oh dear oh dear I seem to have hit a nerve . BTW as usual you seem to get things twisted. I actually prefer and always have BSA's. The Parker-Hale's came along a bit later and after buying a 1100 Deluxe in 30-06 and having the dealer tell is was a safari and several other trade experts including two whom claimed to have worked at Parker-Hale also tell me it was different models I really started to question what dealers and the trade actually knew. then as luck would have it at a Bisley Arms fair I stumbled on a P-H catalogue #73/4 which had the 1100 Deluxe in it so at last I knew what model I actually owned.

That started my search for real information on the Parker-Hale firm and it's rifles. I rely upon their own printed matter and have slowly built up a small collection of their catalogues and leaflets which I am always on the look out for ones that I don't have.

Parker-Hale rifles were well made but they aimed at a section of the market that they thought would be good for them. Sadly they didn't try to go upmarket as I am sure they could have done instead they acted as importers and agents for other makes. I do not recall ever saying or posting that P-H rifles were supreme. I have said they were better made than quite a few modern rifles and if fact I believe their barrel plant/mill is still producing excellent barrels at Armalon. Sadly P-h didn't stamp a lot of their models to it makes it difficult for a lot of dealers to know what they are offering for sale. I have also found that a lot of dealer get upset if you point out their error and inform them of the model they are offering for sale.

One does not have to read on the internet to get experience. Thank you I gained experience before this incident occurred but of course this fact does not suit your purpose ................................... sorry about that!

I also still own the majority of my collection thank you one does not require a FAC to own firearms only hold possession of them.

 

[Brithunter]

To suggest that barrels DON'T wear out is ridiculous - they are merely obeying the laws of physics which we cannot change. Sure, there are many factors which will affect the rate at which this happens - but it will happen!! The only ones that don't wear out are the ones that sit in the corner somewhere (along with their owners) and don't get used! Modern powders and cleaning products have undoubtedly helped, but the underlying physics remains the same. This may well have been in a corner somewhere unused and fall into this category. However, as has been stated, this type and age of rifle and calibre was the choice of many professionals and may have seen an awful lot of use. The only way to tell, is to get it checked by someone that knows what they are looking for. It may well have passed some in store 'safety-tests', but that won't tell you if it is worn out!
As an example, my brother bought a very similar rifle to this in .308 when he started out. It shot fine for a while and then went very 'random'!! After checking out all the normal causes, he took it to a decent riflesmith to get it looked at. The riflesmith ended up putting a disc cutter through the barrel as it was dangerously worn!! It was not worth re-barrelling such a rifle and proved to be an expensive lesson learned!
The rifle you are looking at may well be fine, but all I would say is to get qualified person to confirm this before you part with your money. With your family situation as described, I'm guessing it would not be a mistake you would wish to make?
MS

Who and where was it said they do not wear out?

If you are implying it was in my post then perhaps you had better re-read it. What I said was:-

Oh dear as per usual I see the same old tosh about barrels being shot out in X amount of rounds. What utter bollox. No one can say how many rounds a barrel will last and in fact often more damage is down through improper cleaning that actual shooting. X amount of rounds shot in quick succession will cause much more wear that the same number of rounds shot over a period of time.

I believe that earlier in this thread someone claimed that a 270 Winchester chambered barrel would be shot out in around 2000 rounds. Which of course is daft for the very reasons above.

 

[Ranger22]

Am not at all skint or destitute lol If I was I would not be thinking about buying a rifle just not willing to go overly expensive for something for work or shooting at night, I Am being realistic I am 34 with a young family and I enjoy shooting but I am not going to put everything I have aside over a rifle.


My idea was simple find a decent cheap budget package that shoots straight, All the advice given I trully have taken on board and my options are always open,


I put down three possibles at the beginning of this thread not just P-H and also I know 1995rs has a really good rifle for sale, giving myself til end of the month to get one, and to be honest I am a fussy bugger


All brilliant advice from you guys and obviously the reason I asked is because you guys have a lot more experience in this than I do so I am so very glad of the advice. If I had my choice I be paying fr £2100 package by SAKO or TIKKA and Grahams or Macleods be cashing my money into the bank lol


I think this is the problem with the sport and the industry in a whole, if your not lucky enough to be on an estate and have access to estate equipment you have to put a small fortune on equipment that most people these days just cannot afford. Clothing and boots = £200 - £300 + , decent lamp min £150 , fox calls £20 , Spotting scope £100 s/h , Bino's - infinite and thats all before you buy rifle - scope - mod - bipod... You are talking 5 grand thats half of the average earnings for some people a year driving about in the back of your vehicle everytime you sit in a ditch lol


So in the end I am being careful and taking all your advice on board

Us lucky sods still plough a shed load of money into our privately owned gear

Al

 

[JC275]

I also still own the majority of my collection thank you one does not require a FAC to own firearms only hold possession of them.

How does that work then?

 

[Tulloch]

Us lucky sods still plough a shed load of money into our privately owned gear

Al

I know mate am not getting at that, It's an expensive hobby for all thats why it is always gonna be for the restricted few


I am sorry for all this headache , I never realised that it would have opened a passionate debate in regards to what cheapy rifle I should buy lol I am so close to buying a brand new remington 770 , ( I am hearing the gasps as I type this ) All I want is something I can use to shoot and not worry about anything at a budget price.

I have learned so much over the last few hours reading these posts.

 

[Essexsussex]

Thank you so very much for all your comments I have a lot to think about ,

I ideally had planned to buy a fairly new Tikka but when it got safety checks done on it before purchase I was told it had crown issues , then a friend of mine swapped his .270 for a .243 at the dealer then told me about it, I contacted the dealer and they said they would keep it aside for me but a few days later I went to get it one of the assistants had sold it. As time is now a bit of an issue with new baby and car to fit family my budget has now become effected and I dont really want to wait any longer.

The reason for the .270 is because I know what calibres I am confortable with so when renewing or should I say reapplying for my FAC again the three calibres I asked for was .22 , .243 and .270 as well as shotgun. When I spent time training to be a keeper those were the calibres I got used to.

There was a 270 on here for 100 quid not long ago, search for 'cheap 270'. Grouping at less than an inch, it will do a job, screw cut as well. Add rings and an Edgar bros opti mate for £100, a used mod for £150, you're away. Don't listen to that rubbish about spending a grand. Bagged 2 fallow today with my £200 rifle and scope combo in 243. Great gun, great scope and they do the job.

 

[Essexsussex]

Who and where was it said they do not wear out?

If you are implying it was in my post then perhaps you had better re-read it. What I said was:-



I believe that earlier in this thread someone claimed that a 270 Winchester chambered barrel would be shot out in around 2000 rounds. Which of course is daft for the very reasons above.

with you as ever BH. And even if they did wear out after 2000 shots, one that has done 1,750 will leave a few years stalking at a dozen deer a year. Horses for courses and not everyone is trying to run the grand national!

 

[Brithunter]

How does that work then?

Simple I have sold two rifles and still own the rest. One other the 303 Muscat Martini is up for sale the rest along with most of my ammunition , that which was returned and did not vanish, is in storage with a RFD.

 

[JC275]

Simple I have sold two rifles and still own the rest. One other the 303 Muscat Martini is up for sale the rest along with most of my ammunition , that which was returned and did not vanish, is in storage with a RFD.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware that there was any way that a person could own a firearm in the UK without being a FAC holder, learn something new every day.