300 Win 180 grain bullet recommendations - thanks.

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paulbshooting

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon.
Just back from a great week on the red hinds in Scotland. Great hunting and craic as always despite the best efforts of the weather.
We sent a fair few away to the larder but feedback from the game dealer is not great.
Clean entry but major exit hole damage with lots of meat bruising despite chest shot rib to rib.
Using 300WM reloads with Nosler Accubond (white tip) bullets in 180g. Ranges from 60M to 220M, typically 170M+.
Wonder if I would be better with a Nosler Partition or Soft Point or other bullet instead rather than a tipped one?
All the hinds dropped at or close to the shot and love the 300WM in the wind but can't be sending away carcasses that are "bad".
Any recommendations on bullets welcome.
Not keen to change calibre before anyone proposes that!
Thanks.
 
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enfieldspares

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I'm surprised your stalker...if it was accompanied...didn't at least raise a comment about your using ballistic tips. For sure as you note your game dealer did!

I wonder if a simple cup and core conventional soft point would do? What velocity are you pushing the current bullets at?

The Partition has its followers but accuracy aside it may not be parallel sided enough at the required place depending on your OAL for the short neck of your .300 Win Mag?

Neck length is the big advantage of Norma's .308 Norma Magnum and Weatherby'd .300 Magnum I'm told.
 
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stubear

Well-Known Member
Anything ballistic tipped will get a bit explode-y, even the bonded stuff because the tip forces the bullet to expand more quickly.

I'm using the 180gn Sierra Pro Hunters in my Win Mag, sitting on 75.6gn of RS70 and a CCI magnum primer. Sub MOA accuracy and they hold together pretty well because of the flat base. And they're cheap!
 

paulbshooting

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments and recommendations. The Sierra pro hunters sound like what I need so will source a box and do some testing.
 

paulbshooting

Well-Known Member
Good shout on the interlocks. Would I load them the same as my noslers with no crimp or would I need to crimp on the interlock cannulure or is that just a feature on the bullet to hold the core together? Thanks
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
Fellas, this business of a "ballistic tip" causing the problem is nonsense. The Accubond is a high quality bonded bullet that will not fragment and "explode", period. The tip initiates expansion but does not cause the bullet to explode.

(And, to be pedantic and correct, its not a "ballistic tip". It's a tip made from polymer. The term "ballistic tip" only applies to the Nosler brand of bullets.)

The Barnes TTSX has a "ballistic tip". Does that bullet "explode"? No, it doesn't.

If I was shooting deer at that range with a .300 Win Mag, I'd be selecting a bonded or monolithic bullet. There's nothing more you can do really.

@paulbshooting, your problem is caused simply by having way too much gun at relatively close range. You're shooting a medium game animal with a heavy bullet at an impact velocity of ~2700-2900fps, with a cartridge that is designed for medium to heavy game at long range and impact velocities closer to ~2000-2200fps, or very heavy game at closer range. The bloodshot meat is not caused by fragmentation, its caused by the massive shock to the body. If you were to film the shot, you'd see it, clear as.

The ProHunter spitzer recommendation is wrong, no offence @stubear. No way that a traditional cup and core bullet will hold together at that impact velocity better than an Accubond, nor will it expand slower. I use the two 180gr ProHunters in .30 cal and know those bullets inside out, if you go to a ProHunter you have to use the round nose version.

Whilst you don't want to change cartridge / calibre Paul, you probably should. Too much gun. But if you don't then your only option is to go to less powerful ammunition. Its a hand loading job, I'd be looking at sending those 180gr Accubond closer to 2800fps to remove a chunk of the terminal impact energy that is doing all the damage.

FWIW I was out with a .300 Win Mag shooter recently and inspected three large red hind carcasses shot at ~300m, with the Swift Scirocco II 180gr... exactly the same thing. Massive blood shot damage to the chest cavity.
 

stubear

Well-Known Member
The ProHunter spitzer recommendation is wrong, no offence @stubear. No way that a traditional cup and core bullet will hold together at that impact velocity better than an Accubond, nor will it expand slower. I use the two 180gr ProHunters in .30 cal and know those bullets inside out, if you go to a ProHunter you have to use the round nose version.

FWIW I was out with a .300 Win Mag shooter recently and inspected three large red hind carcasses shot at ~300m, with the Swift Scirocco II 180gr... exactly the same thing. Massive blood shot damage to the chest cavity.

None taken - I'm just recounting what I've used and the experiences I've had. I will say this for classic cup and core bullets; if you hit the shoulder blades it does make a bit of a mess but if you park the shot behind the shoulder blade then it just pokes a hole in them.

Its good to get insights from other peoples experiences - Every day is a school day! :)
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
All good. Luck of the draw with the ribs @stubear, if you smack a rib full on, you'll likely get a very different outcome to a shot that slips between the ribs. Any significant bone in the mix and its a mess at high velocity.
 

howy308

Well-Known Member
Another for the sierra pro hunters I use them in .243, .308 and also 300win mag with great affect.
 

Edinburgh Rifles

Well-Known Member
Anything ballistic tipped will get a bit explode-y, even the bonded stuff because the tip forces the bullet to expand more quickly.


It doesn’t
The tip by itself does nothing except increase BC
Pull the tips from any bullet and they wIll INCREASE in expansive character on impact

Many frangible ballistic tipped bullets have thinner jackets
Nobody complains about swift scirocco breaking up or expanding too quickly

Tips do **** all inside 300m
Look at the construction of the bullet


As for 180gr for the 300wm
Move to lapua mega, nobler partition, interbond
Or step up to 200gr and slow them down
 

A Guy Out West

Well-Known Member
As DK points out, speed is the issue here. Slow that puppy down to 30/06 speed and your damage will be less. I would go down to a muzzle velocity of around 2650. With a 180 gr. that should give you plenty of power out to the max range you noted.
 

John Gryphon

Well-Known Member
Nosler Partition bullets are too hard for reds (300 magnums) especially hinds. Yeah yeah yeah they will kill them of course. My 300 wm has punched them through big sambar like they were cheese. A lead tipped soft point is the answer,forget all of the other fancy nancy bullets.
 

stubear

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t
The tip by itself does nothing except increase BC
Pull the tips from any bullet and they wIll INCREASE in expansive character on impact

Many frangible ballistic tipped bullets have thinner jackets
Nobody complains about swift scirocco breaking up or expanding too quickly

Tips do **** all inside 300m
Look at the construction of the bullet


As for 180gr for the 300wm
Move to lapua mega, nobler partition, interbond
Or step up to 200gr and slow them down

I'm not saying youre wrong here - but to take Hornadys own blurb they say about the ELD-X that "the heat shield tip drives backwards into the bullet to initiate expansion".

I thought that was one of the benefits of tipped bullets? That and better BC over longer ranges.

I've shot deer with Nosler BTs (out of a .25-06) and Hornady Interbonds (out of a .308) and both did more carcass damage than standard lead tipped cup and core bullets, hence my recommendation at the start of this thread. I only use bog standard cup and core bullets now as a result to be honest...

I agree with you about slowing the bullets down though if they are making a right mess. Speed does seem to be a major factor!
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
You're both wrong, to an extent.

#1 - the polymer tip does not mean a bullet explodes as in a soft frangible construction, it just initiates expansion; if its a varmint bullet it will explode, if its a bonded big game bullet, it won't
#2 - the polymer tip is not there just for increasing BC, it is there to aid BC and initiate expansion

That's why there is a void behind the polymer tip, a space into which the tip will be pushed into whilst starting the process of peeling back the jacket

When it comes to the magnums, you have to pick the cartridge based on game weight and the expected range at which it will be shot.

In this case, the game is too light and the bullet is too fast as the range is too short. That meerkat advert where he says "simples" or something like that....
 
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Edinburgh Rifles

Well-Known Member
You're both wrong, to an extent.

#1 - the polymer tip does not mean a bullet explodes as in a soft frangible construction, it just initiates expansion; if its a varmint bullet it will explode, if its a bonded big game bullet, it won't
#2 - the polymer tip is not there just for increasing BC, it is there to aid BC and initiate expansion

That's why there is a void behind the polymer tip
, a space into which the tip will be pushed into whilst starting the process of peeling back the jacket

When it comes to the magnums, you have to pick the cartridge based on game weight and the expected range at which it will be shot.

In this case, the game is too light and the bullet is too fast as the range is too short. That meerkat advert where he says "simples" or something like that....


Nothing makes bullets expand better hitting than a 70% water mass
Tips do cock all compared to a void/hollow point hitting a mass of essentially water at 2700-3000fps...

Am sorry but we read WAAAAAAY too much into marketing when we choose bullets

If you want to see the direct comparison go to a bullet maker that sells the same bullet as a BT and an HP
Hasler used to sell the bullets with the tips to be added by the loader as they see fit
Hollow Point - Maximum expansion and larger wound channel - lower BC
Tipped - Better Long Range capability - more controlled expansion and penetration


Dont follow the marketing
Pull the tips and see how they expand compared to when they are complete

I have done it.
VMax (try those if you want to liquidise a fox!)
AMax
Nosler BT
Hasler Monolithic
Fox Classic Hunter
SST
ELD-M/X
 
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