6.5 monolith, experiences, suggestions?

[Utectok]

was just about to ask, any load data available for them, i can only get vhit, exclusively. foreign powder is sold in the big City but illegal to ship.

450m is not something i would even attempt so they should work fine for me. How destructive have you found them to be at close range? Ofcourse any bullet will mess up meat close range at velocities intended for long range but i found some bullets are more extreme in this regard. Blade does pretty well in this regard, Fox is carnage from my 30-06 at 900m/s muzzle veloxity. I have pictures of it, a roe deer with an exploded chest (entry, Giant exit + the front of the chest pulverised and bruising down to the kidneys) another roe with the leg on the exit side nesrly amputated and s racoon dog litterally exploded like a popped baloon.

This is not a critisism of Fox bullets. I dont believe they where ever intended to hit a roe deer at stone throw range from a 30-06 at velocity geared towards longer range.

By comparison Naturalis is more gentle at close range for instance.

I’ve shot probably 250 deer red and roe with yew tree tlr 114gn and never had a problem. Aim a little further forward than with lead I use 51gn of n555 in my (modern tikka) 6.5x55 launched them at 3060fps or so. I wouldn’t change bullets unless I had to. Also used them to win the last longer range match I entered out to 800m

 

[Karhumies]

I’ve shot probably 250 deer red and roe with yew tree tlr 114gn and never had a problem. Aim a little further forward than with lead I use 51gn of n555 in my (modern tikka) 6.5x55 launched them at 3060fps or so. I wouldn’t change bullets unless I had to. Also used them to win the last longer range match I entered out to 800m

iam sold, i think i need to try them. Lets hope the customs tax doesnt fleece me

 

[Utectok]

Yew Tree Fieldsports TLR 6.5mm Bullets 114grains

Yew Tree Fieldsports TLR 6.5mm .264” Bullets 114grains non toxic hunting bullets in 6.5mm .264”. Note: These bullets do require a 8.5” twist or faster. Manufactured to exceptional standards in Wiltshire, United Kingdom.

www.copperbullets.co.uk

 

[Karhumies]

Yew Tree Fieldsports TLR 6.5mm Bullets 114grains

Yew Tree Fieldsports TLR 6.5mm .264” Bullets 114grains non toxic hunting bullets in 6.5mm .264”. Note: These bullets do require a 8.5” twist or faster. Manufactured to exceptional standards in Wiltshire, United Kingdom.

www.copperbullets.co.uk

8.5" cuts it close on my old rifle, i think its an 8.6 twist if i remember right. Probably need to go lighter

 

[Utectok]

8.5" cuts it close on my old rifle, i think its an 8.6 twist if i remember right. Probably need to go lighter

I shoot them out of an 8.6 no problem my Sauer is an 8.6 twist and my tikka an 8 both work fine

 

[jthyttin]

Sako makes a very similar bullet called blade. That is currently our golden standard here. Originally Sako actually loaded the TSX but for for the same reasons i dont use them Sako quickly started producing their own copy.

Having read some of your posts, your perception of world seems somewhat strange. Don't recognize maybe half of it as belonging to Finland...

Regarding the above quote, if there's any golden standard in Finland it's Barnes TSX/TTSX. Cannot understand your prices either, while they've come up some a 50pcs box of Barnes is below 70 Euro. And they're much more available than European offerings (besides Sako and Lapua). And Sako loaded Barnes for few decades before moving to inhouse production.

Good thing about bullets is that you can stockpile them.

 

[Tralle]

I’ve tried the lot pretty much and yew tree tlr are the best if you shoot the odd longer one. I’m not at all sure if you can get them in Finland but second on my list is probably Barnes ttsx for 6.5 go with the 100gn not good for real long shots but fine to 250 m or so. I tried peregrine in two calibres and best group I managed was 5” at 100m awful

A tipped fragmenting bullet thats not American. I will have to those as well!
No lead on an eu based retailer?

 

[Karhumies]

where do you buy your bullets? my usual shop greentrail sits between 90 and 140 euro usually depending on caliber. 9/10 shoot a 308 or 9.3 with Sako blade on any hunt i have been on as a group.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

If anyone is getting 5” groups handloading I would speculate its not a bullet problem…

We carry Peregrine, Fox, Barnes, Nosler, Hornady, RWS, Norma, Sako, Federal, S&B, PPU, among others all in non lead in ammo and projectiles

I also have samples of and have tested Rhino, Yew Tree, Tarvas, Black Water, LeHeigh, Hasler, Cutting Edge, GS Custom, Hammer, Nielsen, Badland Precision, Patriot Valley, Bear Creek,

They all have there pros and cons depending on cartridge, quarry, terminal velocity:range

OP asks about “long range”, not sure what range that is.
Any of the above will work well out to 300m

Personally I recommend ensuring you have a solid substrate to initiate expansion by hitting broadside animals higher and further forward.

You are less reliant on terminal velocity and nipping a rapidly slowing monolithic between the ribs of a light framed, thin skinned animal will dramatically increase chance of longer runs and slower death.
One layer of skin, intercostal muscle, spongey lung and exit is not enough to allow for reliable expansion in many of the non-frangible, higher BC, smaller meplat designed bullets

Those that have seen bigger drops with the lower BC bullets can either invest in a rangefinder or run the faster lighter weight class for each calibre

.308 150gr Fox Classic Hunter running 2690fps from a 20” barrel dropped 5” between 100m and 200m
Drops are easy to calculate
Wind not so much

Same rifle shooting 130gr Fox at closer to 2850-2900fps produces a much flatter trajectory and longer MPBR for a 4-5” circle

136gr Peregrine from the same gun were running 3000fps
Anything inside 200m I barely considered the drop
The terminal effect is excellent out to 250-300m in that bullet weight class

Beyond 300m I personally think you need to be running heavier bullets at comparatively higher Velocity

The drop in velocity at range in monolithic bullets is such that range testing at 6-800m has caused me to contact manufacturers to discuss how the BC has been calculated

The impact of a 200gr Peregrine at 650m on steel is notably less than a 200gr ELD-X

Yes i am certain it would kill deer effectively
Hits with a dull thud and a slight movement of the 18” plate
But the ELD-x tests the integrity of the plate hanger and the plate notably louder impact and significantly more plate movement

This can only be explained by the longer bullet with lower sectional density shedding velocity faster than the shorter denser and higher BC lead bullet


For stalking this is not relevant

For target shooting the ELR designed Rangemaster has an extreme tip and ogive profile
The longer range capability is massively improved over the expanding model

 

[Utectok]

Haha @Edinburgh Rifles yes I’d have thought that too something going on with those groups. I can’t say I persevered as I tried two rifles and two calibres with the same results and thought I’d move onto something easier to get to shoot. I guess I could have got somewhere with time but wasn’t worth the hassle and some bullets just shoot in the same rifles. Keep it simple I say

 

[jthyttin]

where do you buy your bullets? my usual shop greentrail sits between 90 and 140 euro usually depending on caliber. 9/10 shoot a 308 or 9.3 with Sako blade on any hunt i have been on as a group.

Start from e.g. Brownells Finland, that most regard as very expensive. Most Barnes hover around the 70 Euro mark or substantially lower. I'm in the "stockpiling team" so it's hardly relevant from where and when I buy...

There's a lot of complaint about Sako Blade around. Most of it from "unwashed masses" who want to have their cake and eat it too. Since Sako has put some effort into expansion at longer distances (in Finnish standards), people are finding "too much damage" when shooting whitetail at 30m from doe box. Also the general monolithic bullet complaint about runners, but that's just about evenly distributed among every bullet brand in use (besides Tarvas that just about everybody is disappointed with and I can understand why).

When people are discussing monolithic bullets, they always refer to Barnes. And this is no wonder based on the time different options have been available. "Does it work better/as good than Barnes?", "Does it produce more/less damage than Barnes?" and so on. At least the people that try even a little bit make their choice of bullet / ammo based on actual real life experiences and not just buying a box of ammo every 5 years, based on salesperson recommendation (that is based on what they have largest stockpile or what has been lying on the shelf for longest time).

 

[Karhumies]

Still pondering my new 6.5x55 bullet. I really like the idea of the peregrines and of its seating sensitivity that is the problem thats a loading concern not a shooting concern. I came across a discussion on a different forum where it was suggested that excessive meat damage in these bullets is caused by lack of stabilisation, essentially they end up tumbling on hit. I have seen certain bullets do this in slo mo actually (not peregrine specifically)

in that case the lighter bullets should solve that issue as well as decrease drop since since iam not shooting moose with this.

I am very stingy about my meat tho, not just put of greed but because i feel it is a waste of the animal. Is it generally seen that peregrines are more destructive than for instance Fox or could it be as suggested elsewhere, not enough stabilisation to keep its course trough the animal.

 

[ValleyPursuits]

I shoot Peregrine VLR4 150gr out of my 30-06 at 2910fps. So far they have been very effective out to 400m on everything from Springbok to Wildebeest. Won’t use them past 400m for a variety of reasons, including that the terminal velocity drops below 2000fps. Groups are ¾MOA in my 1:10 twist barrel.
I realise your question was for a 6.5 - my answer was more in reference to the effectiveness of Peregrines.

 

[Karhumies]

I shoot Peregrine VLR4 150gr out of my 30-06 at 2910fps. So far they have been very effective out to 400m on everything from Springbok to Wildebeest. Won’t use them past 400m for a variety of reasons, including that the terminal velocity drops below 2000fps. Groups are ¾MOA in my 1:10 twist barrel.
I realise your question was for a 6.5 - my answer was more in reference to the effectiveness of Peregrines.

my usual bullet choises have a similar concern. I would be shooting them at similar velocity. Basically how explosive are they at shorter ranges?

this is what fox classic hunter 150gr from my 30-06 does at 50 meter at speeds like that. And this is not an isolated case, pretty typical. I am looking for something a bit more gentle at that velocity. The deer iam shooting can be killed with a 222 rem, so "effective" doesnt have to be all that powerful.

 

[ValleyPursuits]

I think any projectile travelling at >2900 fps muzzle velocity will cause extensive damage if hitting bone at less than 50m. Honestly, at this short distances I try for either head, neck or behind the shoulder shots to minimise wastage.

 

[Karhumies]

I think any projectile travelling at >2900 fps muzzle velocity will cause extensive damage if hitting bone at less than 50m. Honestly, at this short distances I try for either head, neck or behind the shoulder shots to minimise wastage.

that is true but this is alot worse than Similar shots with Naturalis in my experience.

 

[jthyttin]

If you want the bullet performance to be as similar in close range as longer range, you need to find bullet with as high BC as possible. I.e. you want certain performance at longer range, but not excessively "better" performance in short range. Higher BC bullet will shed as little velocity as possible, so terminal velocity and thus performance would be closer together in different distances.

In addition to stabilization issues (you actually want bit "over stabilization" for hunting bullet, since the bullet drag is markedly different in flesh than in air) problem in 6.5mm is that around 100gr the BC is already sufficient and going higher in weight will not result in more velocity at range. Of course this is true only for "like for like" bullets that have same design criteria.

If you look at 100gr, 118gr and 124gr Peregrine Plainsmaster (VLR4) you see that going up in weight will result in smaller proportion in BC gain. In e.g. 30cal you see the opposite (adding weight will gain more BC than linearly calculated from additional weight). While a heavier bullet usually loses bit less velocity than linearly calculated from weight difference, fact is that going up in weight is more beneficial in 30cal than 6.5mm.

So bottom line, if you want one single load, you need to rely more on shot placement (like suggested already) than bullet weight / construction.

 

[Karhumies]

Bone hit sure. So here are some that didnt hit bone other than ribs, same bullet, same rifle, ranges around 100m

 

[wertyp]

I can vouch for Sako PH blade in120 grain 6.5 creedmoor flavour. Puts deer from Muntjac to big red hinds down quickly with reasonable damage. I've also shot it on steel accurately out to 800 metres

 

[DEHL1980]

Check out Yew Tree also, they are a long range tipped design. I use the 148’s out of my .300WM - accurate, fast and for the deer I’ve shot, very terminal.

I’ve shot Peregrine and they’re extremely accurate but I’ve not used them on deer as yet. I think there’s a German dealer bringing them in from SA so as long as supply is not an issue then I’m sure will be an option.

Again LOS in .308 I’ve found to be extremely accurate but not used on deer as yet.

I have Peregrine, Fox and Yew Tree to try in my .260 Rem, will get some loads worked up and then try them through thr spring.

I'm just starting to load 148 Yew Tree for my .300wm - can I ask what your load data is please?