6.5 monolith, experiences, suggestions?

[Karhumies]

So, iam not ashamed to admit that despite owning guns and loading all kinds of bullets i actually know very little about alot of it beyond what i have tried.

Tarvas has been treating me well but on longer shots it drops pretty fast and fails to do the damage. While advertised for 500-950m/s velocities i found the design relies almost solely on velocity to do its thing and at 200+ meters it hits over 30cm low and behaves more like a FMJ, so that one is relegated to short range.

Fox clasic hunter has served well in .308 bores and i may return to it, however once again it drops a bit faster than i would like.

So then there is peregrine and LOS for instance, those look like they could go the distance.

Any of these should work but iam interested in hearing more real world experiences.

I dug up every thread on it in the past years before i even joined the forum but now that i can actually participate in The conversation i wanted to open up a broader discussion. Also to benefit future lurkers like me who run across this thread while googling.

Il share my own experiences later today, gotta take my daughter to the dentist now, how i loathe The 3 hour drive.

So see this not so mutch as me asking for myself but more as putting our experiences together in one thread

 

[Bavarianbrit]

You loathe the 3 hour drive. But that is the downside of off the grid living, great until you need a doctor etc. Do you really have to go monolithic for moose steaks in Finland?

 

[bobo]

I used quite few Fox Classic and found no real problems.
Dont know the Tarvas bullets.
How much difference do you get between a Fox and a higher BC bullet at 200 - 250 meters, is it more than 5 centimeters?


Alternative there is Barnes TSX or Hornady CX in 130gr if you want heavier and have high BC, but I never tried them myself.

 

[Karhumies]

You loathe the 3 hour drive. But that is the downside of off the grid living, great until you need a doctor etc. Do you really have to go monolithic for moose steaks in Finland?

dont have to, i just like them in cartridges like 6.5x55, 243 and 30-06. I noticed the speedy cartridges can really reach their potential with a monolithic. Recentlt we had a apeaker from the game management association and one thing that came up is that while 308 is the standard nowadays in finland the 30-06 is seeing a revival thanks to the Sako blade and TTSX bullets where moose Hunter apreciate sending a heavier monolithic at 800+ m/s.

I have my moose rifle well set up with 165gr Fox classic hunter, shooting those from my AK gives me very clean wound channels trough and through gushing the blood from the beast in seconds. With equivalent lead bullets i often find the bullet exploded on the far side rib when shot at close range, monolithics just bust straight trough.

on the flip side, i shot a roe with the 30-06 and 150gr Fox classic hunter and never did so again.... almost blew the leg clean off (shot taken at 30m, muzzle velocity 905m/s.

Overall i love Fox classic hunter but i like that particular bullet to go slow and heavy out to 150m.

In general i have moved away from lead because i controversially found them less predictable than Fox.

Tarvas Is a whole other beast, it has more DG solid DNA, A long solid chunk of brass with a fragile tip. upon impact the tip squashws revealing a caliber sized concave shank that on gel creates an even cavity all the way trough. Penetration on gell is over 120cm from a 30-06. It certainly has killing power but is very particular on shot placemeng since the cavity is not as wide.

I havent tried LOS or peregrine yet and i avoid american bullets (and guns) for logistical reasons.

I actually havent tried higher BC bullets yet, been eyeing peregrine and LOS and some user feedback is welcome. Drop itself isnt my main concern at long range, its the velocity.

The 6.5x55 is relatively new to me a actually. it wont shoot moose tho, i have a special rifle for that job, its roe deer, white tail, a stray hare. prettt thin skinned targets.

 

[Bowland blades]

Barnes have a very long history with Copper and have learned from past mistakes , hence the brand is not only still around but i place it at the top of the tree !
I have found that impact speed is more relevant with any copper bullet than the weight . I shoot 100 grain TTSX in the 260 rem and found a real improvement over the 120s . In the 223 I shoot 50 grain TTSX but also the Hornady ecx in 50 grain but then I am not shooting Muntjac and CWD at the ranges i often enough shoot the Larger Deer

 

[Karhumies]

yea i know some people using them, heard good things. Also heard of bad experiences but mostly from the 9.3x62 crowd(big following for that round here) To them i usually recomend Fox classic hunter. If iam not behind the times the barnes like a bit more velocity. Another complaint here and the reason i dont consider them: prices fluctuate 100-130 per box of 50. Sako makes a very similar bullet called blade. That is currently our golden standard here. Originally Sako actually loaded the TSX but for for the same reasons i dont use them Sako quickly started producing their own copy.

I am currently considering the peregrines, vlr4 for my 6.5x55, running numbers it would seem they have a pretty good edge past 150m. I just dont know mutch about them yet. I know Fox will do its job no matter if i shoot a slow heavy bullet at roe or a lighter one at moose, ialways remove the plastic tips for no other reason than that the damn things tend to fall out in -30 temps. I wonder if the peregrines will perform well on light targets like roe when their speed drops to 700m/s

Iam setting the rifle up for longer range this year.

More as a fun project than an actual hunting need altho i have had niche situations where such a shot would have been desired. My usual spot has alot of traffic survivors pass trough, hence why we cull around the highway in early summer.

 

[Tralle]

I have had good experience with lehigh bullets, they are however american.
The Danish company dk-bullets have started making, what seem like, a copy of them.
I dont know the Finnish consensus on fragmenting bullets in regards to your moose hunting with dogs though.

Windcut bullets do higher bc monos with an aluminum tip. Should expand down to 450/500 m/s according to my correspondence with them.

 

[Jagged77]

Check out Yew Tree also, they are a long range tipped design. I use the 148’s out of my .300WM - accurate, fast and for the deer I’ve shot, very terminal.

I’ve shot Peregrine and they’re extremely accurate but I’ve not used them on deer as yet. I think there’s a German dealer bringing them in from SA so as long as supply is not an issue then I’m sure will be an option.

Again LOS in .308 I’ve found to be extremely accurate but not used on deer as yet.

I have Peregrine, Fox and Yew Tree to try in my .260 Rem, will get some loads worked up and then try them through thr spring.

 

[Karhumies]

Check out Yew Tree also, they are a long range tipped design. I use the 148’s out of my .300WM - accurate, fast and for the deer I’ve shot, very terminal.

I’ve shot Peregrine and they’re extremely accurate but I’ve not used them on deer as yet. I think there’s a German dealer bringing them in from SA so as long as supply is not an issue then I’m sure will be an option.

Again LOS in .308 I’ve found to be extremely accurate but not used on deer as yet.

yea the german one would be my acces go peregrine, yew tree may be an issue since after brexit i pay a nasty import on stuff from the UK.

those windcut look like they mimic the peregrines actually. quite some options i had not heard of.

 

[HonestJohn]

The tarvas I tried were very stout pills. Really wanting a magnum cartridge if emphatic killing is required. The fox I’ve used briefly in loaded ammo, and it works well. Friends use it, and performance is excellent from what I’ve observed. My personal issue is I don’t like the angle and the nose, I like things more ‘rounded’ and curved and sleek. I know it’s ridiculous, it’s just in my head.

The peregrine from my experience needs very careful seating and loading to shoot its best, to shoot well actually. Kills at range are emphatic and somewhat spectacular, and long range performance when loaded to their optimal performance is excellent - but it’s no meat saver

Sellior and bellow blue is pants, so are the Frangibles.

Best non-lead bullet I’ve used is the Sako powerhead blade. Despite the funky tip, it’s a spectacular bullet on all sized game here, and performs admirably out to ranges where people really shouldn’t need to shoot at live animals.

 

[Karhumies]

Yea Tarvas requires some velocity to work well. I have liked the 150gr in 30-06 on all game but you need to really place that shot well.

What i like is that no matter the size of the animal damage is pretty proportionsl, fired straight trough the front legs it makes a nice straight line without too mutch meat damage. What i hate: shady marketing and a rather distasteful attitude towards EVERY other bullet from the big boss there.

its marketed as a meat saver that kills everything better, safer, cleaner, more ethical and any questions people in my hunting club have asked about them where answered with anecdotes and hominems about hunters who used other bullets and somehow endangered him, his dogs and tormented game by not using his bullet. Allegedly, i only had a short conversation with the man myself and all i can confirm first hand is that his extensive "safety" claims are based on the penetrating power of the bullet referring over and over how other bullets can exit at crazy angles.

something i have never seen with a moose bullet, only my 222 tends to do that from time to time.

II hadnt heard peregrine made such a mess of the meat? why is that? just velocity and therefore a natural result of HOW they are loaded, or is it a design thing?

I do feel the same about Fox they look ridiculous, gets a bit better when you remove the tips, wich i always do since some of the tips fall out by themselves anyway by the time they are fired, seems to be about the cold. I am not sure how i will like them in the 6.5x55 tho, in 30-06 i had to go slow and heavy to avoid blowing the leg off a roe deer at close range.

I do shoot at longer ranges than you probably do, but its situational. Mostly i like to have the ability if i need it. My scopes arent the dialing kind and i do ocasionally stretch to 300 those shots usually mean culling or putting down sick/injured across hard to cross terrain otherwise i would just sneak up.

I imagine long shots like that arent always safe and rarely needed in the UK.

Sako blade is quite expensive but yea, i have heard great things, still alot cheaper than Barnes over here.

Running numbers between peregrine and Fox/Tarvas the difference in drop and velocity past 200m gets significant tho, peregrine seems to shine there.

I wonder how windcut bullets compare, i cant find alot of reviews on them.

 

[Karhumies]

To clarify the difference i found in the numbers between peregrine vlr4 and Fox/Tarvas/naturalis

in practical terms aiming just under the spine on a deer with peregrine would result in deadly shot placement at all ranges out to about 250m and the thickness of my T Post reticle on the 8x56 zeiss would be enough holdover out to 300. In numbers the drop at 300m would be around 60cm at theoretical max load for my rifle (all simulation data ofcourse)

doing the same with the other bullets would result in complete misses /80+cm drop at 300.

 

[HonestJohn]

To clarify the difference i found in the numbers between peregrine vlr4 and Fox/Tarvas/naturalis

in practical terms aiming just under the spine on a deer with peregrine would result in deadly shot placement at all ranges out to about 250m and the thickness of my T Post reticle on the 8x56 zeiss would be enough holdover out to 300. In numbers the drop at 300m would be around 60cm at theoretical max load for my rifle (all simulation data ofcourse)

doing the same with the other bullets would result in complete misses /80+cm drop at 300.

For really good feedback on the peregrine - best ask @Edinburgh Rifles as they’ve tested them extensively against the fox (and others)

 

[Karhumies]

For really good feedback on the peregrine - best ask @Edinburgh Rifles as they’ve tested them extensively against the fox (and others)

i think i ordered from them before, before i found Fox in Finland. Ofcourse Fox doesnt even claim their bullets to be a long range bullet, i have talked to Fox bullets before and i believe they called it a different tool for a different job (paraphrasing)

 

[Utectok]

I’ve tried the lot pretty much and yew tree tlr are the best if you shoot the odd longer one. I’m not at all sure if you can get them in Finland but second on my list is probably Barnes ttsx for 6.5 go with the 100gn not good for real long shots but fine to 250 m or so. I tried peregrine in two calibres and best group I managed was 5” at 100m awful

 

[Karhumies]

I’ve tried the lot pretty much and yew tree tlr are the best if you shoot the odd longer one. I’m not at all sure if you can get them in Finland but second on my list is probably Barnes ttsx for 6.5 go with the 100gn not good for real long shots but fine to 250 m or so. I tried peregrine in two calibres and best group I managed was 5” at 100m awful

If Edinburgh rifles sells them i should be able to get them, they seem very flexible on international shipping. Its usually the import that get me. i would pay a pretty fat VAT on them unless its a gift package from someone.

5" at 100? my russian bullet hose does better from the hip, thats really bad. Sounds like something was wrong there, but i assume you know the likely culprits and checked for those.

 

[Karhumies]

If Edinburgh rifles sells them i should be able to get them, they seem very flexible on international shipping. Its usually the import that get me. i would pay a pretty fat VAT on them unless its a gift package from someone.

5" at 100? my russian bullet hose does better from the hip, thats really bad. Sounds like something was wrong there, but i assume you know the likely culprits and checked for those.

OK not from the hip from the shoulder. hyperbolic and all

 

[Utectok]

If Edinburgh rifles sells them i should be able to get them, they seem very flexible on international shipping. Its usually the import that get me. i would pay a pretty fat VAT on them unless its a gift package from someone.

5" at 100? my russian bullet hose does better from the hip, thats really bad. Sounds like something was wrong there, but i assume you know the likely culprits and checked for those.

Yep two calibres and did enough testing to discard peregrine. The yew tree tlr I’ve never managed to group larger than an inch they are accurate and lethal to as far as I can shoot (450m). See if Richard will send you them. Vhit n555 and 6.5x55 is my go to combo

 

[HonestJohn]

If Edinburgh rifles sells them i should be able to get them, they seem very flexible on international shipping. Its usually the import that get me. i would pay a pretty fat VAT on them unless its a gift package from someone.

5" at 100? my russian bullet hose does better from the hip, thats really bad. Sounds like something was wrong there, but i assume you know the likely culprits and checked for those.

My grouping was around the 5” mark too. They’re veryvseatinf fussy

 

[Karhumies]

Yep two calibres and did enough testing to discard peregrine. The yew tree tlr I’ve never managed to group larger than an inch they are accurate and lethal to as far as I can shoot (450m). See if Richard will send you them. Vhit n555 and 6.5x55 is my go to combo

was just about to ask, any load data available for them, i can only get vhit, exclusively. foreign powder is sold in the big City but illegal to ship.

450m is not something i would even attempt so they should work fine for me. How destructive have you found them to be at close range? Ofcourse any bullet will mess up meat close range at velocities intended for long range but i found some bullets are more extreme in this regard. Blade does pretty well in this regard, Fox is carnage from my 30-06 at 900m/s muzzle veloxity. I have pictures of it, a roe deer with an exploded chest (entry, Giant exit + the front of the chest pulverised and bruising down to the kidneys) another roe with the leg on the exit side nesrly amputated and s racoon dog litterally exploded like a popped baloon.

This is not a critisism of Fox bullets. I dont believe they where ever intended to hit a roe deer at stone throw range from a 30-06 at velocity geared towards longer range.

By comparison Naturalis is more gentle at close range for instance.