Sure 69.5gr Elcho 17. Works really well
6.5 monolith, experiences, suggestions?
- Thread starter Karhumies
- Start date
Sure 69.5gr Elcho 17. Works really well
Key-holing ! indicates your a long way off a good load for that rifle . " supressor" what we call a moderator in the UK normally will not adversely effect the bullet stability ( so long as its in good order and the threading job was good )
fox classic Hunter 139gr tipless with 40.8gr of n550 and a length of 73.5mm, my chamber limits it to 74.5 (jammed) in a CZ550
pressure last time it shot well was 1050hg and temp 1c
today 1014hg and 13c
All that means nothing as regards your bullets slapping side onto a target . I fear you are missing the big issue , you wont tune in a load that is keyholes. Sorry i cant help you more but its got nothing to do with the air temp etc
Go back to basics and don't jamb bullets unless you know exactly what your up to in benchrest loads
most good hunting bullets will shoot without a lot of work , the small tweeks dont gain much and like i say your way off "happy land" when bullets are keyholing
i dont jam bullets. As i mentioned iam dropping the 139gr, ordered the 123gr today. Just odd how last week they didnt keyhole. iam not asking help, issue is clear (thanks anyway tho!). Even if the moderator was the issue thats a dealbreaker already since i picked the rifle for the moderator option. I learned long ago not to dwell on bullets that dont work. My first load development (165gr fox in 30-06) cost me 300 euro to end up with 2moa ammo. That rifle just hated them, 150gr and 180gr both gave touching holes.
again tho, if they shot well before, something has to be off to now suddenly be keyholing, thats rather drastic.
NickJ
Well-Known Member
My rifle (6.5x55) didn't like Barnes. It loves Yewtree Yew Tree Bullets
They have proved very effective over the last four seasons even at long ranges with decent wound channels and relatively large exit wounds. Also excellent service from them: delivery and load dev advice.
No experience of Fox but plenty of people like them, I hear good things about Virtus Lead Free Copper Bullets Testing and Evaluation from pro stalkers.
They have proved very effective over the last four seasons even at long ranges with decent wound channels and relatively large exit wounds. Also excellent service from them: delivery and load dev advice.
No experience of Fox but plenty of people like them, I hear good things about Virtus Lead Free Copper Bullets Testing and Evaluation from pro stalkers.
I am trying 123 next. I suspect its a twist issue given how they jaw, they arent completely sideways, more like 45 degrees or so. Some on another forum theorised that when on the edge of stable a supressor might cause enough of a disturbance on exiting the muzzle to destabilise it at its most critical point in flight
Obviously nobody can diagnose what is and is not happening remotely . I should 100% clean to bare metal and get the rifle bore scoped and check that you have an oil free bore . A 30-06 would and should have a suitable twist rate .
2 moa is still more than enough to kill deer to 200 yards ! 4" at 200 yards give or take a bit . rifles sometimes do let go for all different things oil in the bore , loading mistakes , loose screws, stock movement , cracks in the stock / warps . Heck and we all have bad days but bullets keyholing ? its something in the bore fixable or not make sure and clean to bare metal and swab out with meths (oil in a bore can do this ) 2moa is just a bad day or a cry for a service
2moa out of a 0.5moa rifle with a dofferent bullet isnt bad but a perfectly good reason to use that other bullet. 165gr or 180gr, they both killed all i needed them to. Completely different rifle tho.
this rifle shoots perfectly with 140gr lead factory ammo, 124gr factory ammo and a few other loads.
I think the obvious culprit is too slow of a twist for the bullet at the velocity iam shooting it And since 123gr is deer legal i have no reason to mess around more with 139gr.
whats interesting is that Fox says it "should" be stable and JBM calculator gives it a 1.1 (very marginal) So perhaps the supressor wich has no issues with well stabilised bullets pushes it just over the edge with perhaps some turbulence. OR maybe The bullets wobble a bit too mutch and clip a baffle. Its interestingto theorise.
but the end of the day i have the percect solution: different bullet.
this rifle shoots perfectly with 140gr lead factory ammo, 124gr factory ammo and a few other loads.
I think the obvious culprit is too slow of a twist for the bullet at the velocity iam shooting it And since 123gr is deer legal i have no reason to mess around more with 139gr.
whats interesting is that Fox says it "should" be stable and JBM calculator gives it a 1.1 (very marginal) So perhaps the supressor wich has no issues with well stabilised bullets pushes it just over the edge with perhaps some turbulence. OR maybe The bullets wobble a bit too mutch and clip a baffle. Its interestingto theorise.
but the end of the day i have the percect solution: different bullet.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I suspect those 139 gn 6.5 Fox are the sort of length of the old 156gn 6.5 lead bullets, if not a bit longer, hence the instability challenges.
The 123 will about the length of the the 140 gn lead bullets that work well in your rifle.
Going back to the Peregrines - they are a very good bullet but seem to have quite a narrow window of load in which they work well. Find the window, they are very good, but outside the groups open up substantially.
The Fox bullets tend to be much more forgiving with a much wider window in which they work.
The 123 will about the length of the the 140 gn lead bullets that work well in your rifle.
Going back to the Peregrines - they are a very good bullet but seem to have quite a narrow window of load in which they work well. Find the window, they are very good, but outside the groups open up substantially.
The Fox bullets tend to be much more forgiving with a much wider window in which they work.
Copied Eds load with 123gr exept as i always do i adjusted length to 1mm off rifling wich is my standard starting point.
problem solved. Il shoot some more groups and tinker a little with seating depth to see if it gets even better but iam happy as is. for reference 1 circle on the target is 5mm
problem solved. Il shoot some more groups and tinker a little with seating depth to see if it gets even better but iam happy as is. for reference 1 circle on the target is 5mm
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Not good enough at all
There is paper between the three holes. Many on SD will state you have no chance of shooting any deer with a group like that. 1.5cm sized group - pathetic.
Seat them at the stated OAL as per Ed’s data, adjust point of impact and go hunting. To be honest if you left things as they are, it will be a dead deer out to 200 odd metres with a centre of chest hold. Its about 80mm high, so assuming 100m distance. Personally I would come down a click or two so its 40 to 50mm high at 100m.
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havent zeroed at all. Scope is set for 140gr lead. Its fine like this and will be a dead deer but it hurts nothing but my wallet to see how mutch i can squeeze out of it. Eds OAL is 2mm shorter and this works fine so iam just going to try 0.15 and 0.30mm either side of it to see what happens and call the best one good enough.Not good enough at all
There is paper between the three holes. Many on SD will state you have no chance of shooting any deer with a group like that. 1.5cm sized group - pathetic.
Seat them at the stated OAL as per Ed’s data, adjust point of impact and go hunting. To be honest if you left things as they are, it will be a dead deer out to 200 odd metres with a centre of chest hold. Its about 80mm high, so assuming 100m distance. Personally I would come down a click or two so its 40 to 50mm high at 100m.
but iam switching scope tonight (zeiss diatal is going back on, i should learn my leason by now) So no point making any adjustments today.
Tralle
Well-Known Member
This is 110 lehigh controlled chaos over n555 in my 6.5x55.
A 20 year old Sauer 202.
I know it is a Kongsberg and only a 3 shot group, so dont put too much in to it other than it is probably not a bad load.
But they do use to shoot very well and have been exceptionally easy to load for in multiple calibers.
If the rifle is only for deer and smaller, and you would like to try a fragmenting option, then consider trying them.
Should be available through brownells.
to me a 3 shot group is a good indication because if it cant get 3 where you want them anything else is a moot point.
Tralle
Well-Known Member
Also sort of my point. An indication.
3 is not really a big enough sample to draw any meaningfull conclusion, other than to weed out bad loads.
It can be just luck, and you might end up chasing your own tail concluding too much from 3 round groups.
If it were a 10 shot group then I would dare to call it a good load, but no way I could do that with this thin barrel and the mirage from a moderator.
However, I do happen to know the other loads I tested with this combo were also way more than sufficient for my uses, so I have just loaded theese and called it a day.
Same rifle shot >8cm groups with 120 nosler e-tips
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