6.5 or what

[ejg]

Guys here are

And to add to the above, it just flat out works. This was taken yesterday, while out hunting with Muir. 200yds, single shot, 130gr Game Changer bullet. He dressed out at 250lbs, so I doubt a 6.5x55 would have killed him deader. The rifle is a Tikka T-3, with a Carbon 6 CF barrel in a KRG Bravo chassis (with enclosed for end).

Also in Ireland some rave about the results of the 130gr game changer on deer from their 24" Tikka's. Sako factory loads these for the 6.5CM. Some say no different to the performance of a 270.
edi

ps
Marine, if you have a chance, try out that stock that is with Muir...

 

[Foxyboy43]

OK! Enuf already!! I started this and after 3 pages I think I have a fair smattering of views which lead me to think there is no "magic bullet" or should that be "rifle"? Rather the nut behind each bolt draws his own unique conclusions and opinions. Sooooo - let us draw a discreet veil over this vexed subject and move on.........

 

[User00033]

That was the answer I was hoping for! (except for the end bit).

I have had enough of my .243 X-Bolt (seized rotary magazine and the bolt binding on the back stroke).

So I am looking for a replacement, 6mm CM looks to be favourite as I can the look to stretch it over 1000yds with high BC bullets.
Hopefully I can find one in the UK for around £1000.

@dodgyknees do you go as low as 70gr bullets with yours?


Eddie

Sorry Eddie, my turn to apologise. The “you” in my reply was not meant to be interpreted as you, as in Eddie, but the generalised “other side of the argument” that I am routinely butting heads with when discussing new cartridges. Badly phrased.

I have part boxes of 75gr and 87gr V-Max that I will be testing around New Year. I have a couple of .243 Win barrels available for re-chambering, and if I get the kind of velocity I am expecting with the 75gr in my current 6mm CM, I will probably set up another rifle in this chambering but with a light weight 20” barrel. I won’t use my current heavy barrelled rifle with any new loads past a dozen rounds of load testing because the overbore nature of the cartridge does not lend itself to fantastic barrel life.

 

[sh1kar]

 

[User00033]

OK! Enuf already!! I started this and after 3 pages I think I have a fair smattering of views which lead me to think there is no "magic bullet" or should that be "rifle"? Rather the nut behind each bolt draws his own unique conclusions and opinions. Sooooo - let us draw a discreet veil over this vexed subject and move on.........

I think what you’ve experienced in this thread is the philosophical equivalent of an ebb tide when it comes to the Creedmoor bashing that’s been going on for the last several years. It’s past its peak and the tide has turned, the cartridge is now all but ubiquitous and the old Swede is waning. Pretty soon we’ll see a flood tide, and the conversation will be far more positive, constructive and exploring the finer detail of a fine cartridge and how to get best use out of it. The Creedmoor memes and jokes and carry on have been a laugh, but getting really boring now, like anything else the joke can only be funny for so long.

Variations on your original question in post #1 have been written on this forum countless times, and everywhere else, and it’s like yaaaawwwnnnn.... whatever. Move on. Maybe you weren’t to know, but you do now!

 

[TheCornishman]

I was hoping @dodgyknees would be able to tell us why a hilux is so much better than a Landrover too.

Blasphemy!...

 

[Foxyboy43]

Thanks for that. In fairness it may indeed be old hat etc. to you and many others but it was new to me and perhaps, just perhaps, someone else. Indeed the many and varied responses may even have helped someone decide to go (or not!) for a 6.5 - new or old. If it has then the SD site will have delivered and I and those who have contributed constructively to the discussion should be pleased to have been of some little assistance.

 

[25 Sharps]

Younger at mind... maybe.
anyway don't worry. In a few days or weeks the next will post about the high pressure loading of the 6.5x55 Swede and how much can be achieved with it. These threads crop up often. Question is how long has Europe had the 3800bar max on the Swede? maybe 100 years?
Once again it goes to show that it is sometimes a good thing to say good-bye to an old cartridge and keep things simple with only one standard, or two standards that are very close to each other. As in the 6.5CM SAAMI and CIP.
edi

Leaving all outlandish high pressure claims and personal opinion aside lets compare some unbiased, objective published data shall we?

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds with a 140 / 142 for the swede 2762, 2778, 2790 fps

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds for the same in creedmoor 2699,2730,2731 fps

So the Swede pips it just, and with a 1" shorter barrel too ( 23 x55 vs 24CM) but at the expense of a bit more powder burned, that said for lighter bullets the 6.5 CM seems to best the swede by around 100 FPS so essentially the 2 cartridges are basically twins and what one will do the other will, other than be shot in a short action which makes very little difference.

As I said above the 2 cartridges do the same thing, everything else is just personal preference, I have both and can honestly say I don't have a preference because they do exactly the same thing. If you want to step up then you need to go to 6.5-284 or 6.5-PRC or look at the 7 mms.

To the OP @Foxyboy43 stick with what you have, there is no benefit to jumping over to creedmoor as there is nothing to be gained unless you want to shoot light bullets fast ( I am getting 3450 fps from the creedmoor out of a 26" using 85s, now discontinued)

 

[25 Sharps]

Also it can be used reliably in semi auto rifles which make up a huge part of the American market. They weren't designing the Creedmoor for a few European hand loaders.

They weren't designing it for semi auto shooter either, it was designed as a Precision Rifle competition cartridge I believe

 

[25 Sharps]

Silly question from a novice reloader. If the swede and CM shoot the same bullet. And the swede has the capacity for more powder.. is it not possible to get the same performance accuracy wise and realistically in the field / long range with the 6.5x55? Excluding the fact that the swede may be fractionally less efficient but don’t they basically come full circle to the same thing? Appreciate factory bought is a different game.

Hallelujah

 

[Muir]

Leaving all outlandish high pressure claims and personal opinion aside lets compare some unbiased, objective published data shall we?

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds with a 140 / 142 for the swede 2762, 2778, 2790 fps

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds for the same in creedmoor 2699,2730,2731 fps

And the thing is? It's a comparison that will go unnoticed by most.
Unfortunate but true. ~Muir

 

[ejg]

Sharps, you do not have to convince me. I have made up my mind and have my facts lined up as have the majority buying new rifles. If I would want more power I would not go 6.5x55 I would go straight to 6.5 284 or 6.5 PRC compare the swede to other long action cartridges if you need to step up to long action. It is not always about getting more power.
For you long or short action might make no odds, for others it does. For example standard military ten shot magazines available for short action as used in PRS vs long action 10 shot magazine AI type. You say it makes little difference?

edi

 

[25 Sharps]

Sharps, you do not have to convince me. I have made up my mind and have my facts lined up as have the majority buying new rifles. If I would want more power I would not go 6.5x55 I would go straight to 6.5 284 or 6.5 PRC compare the swede to other long action cartridges if you need to step up to long action. It is not always about getting more power.
For you long or short action might make no odds, for others it does. For example standard military ten shot magazines available for short action as used in PRS vs long action 10 shot magazine AI type. You say it makes little difference?

edi

Edi, I am not trying to convince you, as you say your mind is made up and I have no issue with that I am just trying to point out that ballistically there is nothing in it.

You do love to break those photos out on these occasions don’t you?

yes, it makes naff all difference to me or to any stalker on this forum that shoots a Tikka (which if the recent poll was anything to go buy is the majority).

Both shooters in your photos look quite happy with their set ups too.

 

[ejg]

Sharps, there is not a single reason or point that you have made that makes the 6.5x55 the better cartridge. Several on here have pointed out the disadvantages of the swede as well as the advantages of the CM. Of course there are many nice hunting rifles out there that will serve their owners well for many years to come be it in 6.5 Swede, 7x57, 8x57 etc. The pictures earlier were from an International PRS comp in Ireland with roughly 100 entries. My guess is there were less than a handful 6,5x55 entered. Plenty 6.5 CM. The guy with the Swede in the Howa and the long magazine won the cold bore shot.
If you buy a new rifle at this time it makes more sense to get it in 6.5CM than 6.5x55. I have 2 6.5CM and one x55.
edi

 

[nun_hunter]

They weren't designing it for semi auto shooter either, it was designed as a Precision Rifle competition cartridge I believe

Which also had to reliably feed in an AR10 platform.

 

[Laurie]

They weren't designing it for semi auto shooter either, it was designed as a Precision Rifle competition cartridge I believe

It was designed originally as an off the shelf cartridge for the 'Match' division of High-Power Service Rifle, the version that allows fancy adjustable stocks, match iron sights and any action and cartridge designs.

Unlike the main division that is nearly 100% 223 AR-15s, the Match side has seen both bolt and gas-guns used, but the latter are prone to so many problems and inconsistent performance in this discipline, that specialised bolt-action repeaters such as the Tubb 2000 are the norm. So the 6.5 Creedmoor followed in the steps of David Tubb's 6XC in this role. (In fact, David Tubb designed the T2K rifle and 6XC cartridge after a couple of frustrating seasons with a 260 Rem calibre big-AR of some description.) Unlike the XC though, the pair behind the cartridge, Hornady's Dave Emary and Creedmoor Sports' Dennis De Mille, intended it as a widely available and affordable factory produced cartridge from the off.

It and Hornady had a great stroke of luck with the arrival of the new and very popular PRS discipline which initially saw widespread Creedmoor use, first in 6.5mm then as the initially wildcat but soon factory adopted 6mm necked-down form. Even though either version is now a minority choice among serious national PRL competitors in the custom rifle class, US interest in PRS gave the new cartridge a huge amount of publicity and of course every rifle manufacturer producing tacticool / blacktical rifles for wannabe or pretend PRS shooters had to include one or both Creedmoors in the chambering options.

As I understand it though, what did take Hornady and other ammunition manufacturers by surprise was just how quickly the US demand for factory deerhunting loads arose after its launch as a purely match cartridge.

 

[ChesterP]

The long and short of this is that if what you already own as a 'x55 then there is little to no benefit in changing it, save for a wider range of factory loaded ammo now available in CM, which as Laurie points out, was a surprise for a cartridge aimed at match use, but there we have it. If, however, you are after a new 6.5, then the place to start looking is probably 6.5CM due to the popularity and take up by rifle manufacturers. Better choice off the shelf, decent (and now affordable) brass and there is a fair amount of load data about now for the load. I have a stack of it for 120 to 142grn projectiles from my own load development over the past few years.

Sharps's point about objective comparisons I would argue was splitting hairs since I've seen much higher velocities developed for the 6.5CM from 140grn projectiles than quoted above, up to 2850fps from a 24 inch barrel, although admittedly a little hot. My own loads are not especially hot for the 140SST and I have tested loads up to around 2750fps with those but settled with the accuracy load at 2650fps (RS62, SRP Lapua brass). There is no real point to be made in the speed stakes other than 'x55 has a taller powder column but the differences at distance from accuracy loads would be small/irrelevant to this discussion applied to hunting.

As Dodgy says, lets get over it. It's here to stay, is a decent round and is supported by a wide choice of ammo and off the shelf rifle pickings. I find many of the 1000 yd "if the x'55 has a bigger case capacity and is faster it's got to be better at 1000 yds, right?" type comments amusing, only because most people making that point will never shoot one at or near that distance and if they did, they'd realise that speed alone doesn't win you precision. Most serious 1000 yd competitors in moderate pressure load classes (ie not 338 lapua or 416 CT or 50BMG high energy long distance shooters) would probably use the superior 7mm anyway. Saying that, I have seen some truly excellent sub moa groups shot at 1000yds from factory CMs, 260 Rems and x47 custom Lapua rifles, and I doubt that any sporting x55 would better that if shot by the average shooter. There are too many straw man arguments in favour of one or another when just about all the truly objective evidence suggests that any 6.5 will do the job well for ANY of us shooters contributing to this discussion and talk of "which one is faster mister" is really not the point. If buying new, common sense dictates for broadening you choice, look to the calibre which is likely to be best supported into the future in both factory rifle offerings and ammunition. The 6.5CM, presently, is that chambering in 6.5 and a quick internet search should back that up.

As for the rest, the nut behind the butt will make a bigger difference than what 6.5 he or she choses.

Oh...and the Hilux is better, Landcruiser better still Neither will need the breakdown support team that the Landrover will....eventually

 

[Foxyboy43]

Leaving all outlandish high pressure claims and personal opinion aside lets compare some unbiased, objective published data shall we?

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds with a 140 / 142 for the swede 2762, 2778, 2790 fps

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

top 3 speeds for the same in creedmoor 2699,2730,2731 fps

So the Swede pips it just, and with a 1" shorter barrel too ( 23 x55 vs 24CM) but at the expense of a bit more powder burned, that said for lighter bullets the 6.5 CM seems to best the swede by around 100 FPS so essentially the 2 cartridges are basically twins and what one will do the other will, other than be shot in a short action which makes very little difference.

As I said above the 2 cartridges do the same thing, everything else is just personal preference, I have both and can honestly say I don't have a preference because they do exactly the same thing. If you want to step up then you need to go to 6.5-284 or 6.5-PRC or look at the 7 mms.

To the OP @Foxyboy43 stick with what you have, there is no benefit to jumping over to creedmoor as there is nothing to be gained unless you want to shoot light bullets fast ( I am getting 3450 fps from the creedmoor out of a 26" using 85s, now discontinued)

Sound advice and evidentially based. Thank you

 

[25 Sharps]

Sharps, there is not a single reason or point that you have made that makes the 6.5x55 the better cartridge. Several on here have pointed out the disadvantages of the swede as well as the advantages of the CM. Of course there are many nice hunting rifles out there that will serve their owners well for many years to come be it in 6.5 Swede, 7x57, 8x57 etc. The pictures earlier were from an International PRS comp in Ireland with roughly 100 entries. My guess is there were less than a handful 6,5x55 entered. Plenty 6.5 CM. The guy with the Swede in the Howa and the long magazine won the cold bore shot.
If you buy a new rifle at this time it makes more sense to get it in 6.5CM than 6.5x55. I have 2 6.5CM and one x55.
edi

Edi, you are clearly not reading what I am saying, unlike you I am not saying one is better than the other, I am saying they are pretty much the same!

The op is not buying a new rifle he has and x55 and is wondering whether it is worth changing to the creedmoor. It is not because they do the same thing. How can I put it any more plainly?

 

[25 Sharps]

Sharps's point about objective comparisons I would argue was splitting hairs since I've seen much higher velocities developed for the 6.5CM from 140grn projectiles than quoted above, up to 2850fps from a 24 inch barrel, although admittedly a little hot.

My point was to used published data tested with pressure equipment from the same source as it gives the most like for like comparison.

Yes the creedmoor can be hot rodded further, my old 24” had 139 scenars skipping along at 2860 FPS over a stout load of RS60. But equally you will then get claims from people who ‘load 6.5x55 to modern pressures’ of equally high velocities. By your own admission your kid is a little hot.

You may recall the guy on UKV (as you’re on there) a few years back when creedmoor was becoming popular who claimed something like 3000 FPS with a 140 and no pressure signs. After much bickering he refused to give his load until he had run rounds through the proof house to prove they were under pressure, he submitted and then all went quiet the only reasonable assumption was his rounds came back well over.

Hence the use of published data for comparison because none of us really know the pressure of our loads!