6mm Cartridges.

Less powder, higher pressure - to what end?
I get less tapered case etc for less stretch and trimming and also COL vs magazine for VLDs etc and also potentially less noise and wear UNTIL the smaller cartridge is hot rodded to equal the larger at which point the additional pressure negates much of that.
The new kids may be good but I'll stick to my 243, case full of N165, 95gr tmk and some leeway for hot days, wet ammo (as happened 2weeks ago) and lower pressure.
 
Maybe I won't.....

This is an interesting article on 6mm creedmire 6 Creedmoor: Review and load development
Of real interest is its the same barrel rechambered from 243 hence 25" vs 26" for the 243 (which you can see if you look at the links below the article) surprising in that the 243 is considerably slower but more accurate. The 6mm creedmoor shows some impressive velocities but then tjats a lot of H4350 - much more than I'd put in a 243 with a 107
 
Less powder, higher pressure - to what end?
I get less tapered case etc for less stretch and trimming and also COL vs magazine for VLDs etc and also potentially less noise and wear UNTIL the smaller cartridge is hot rodded to equal the larger at which point the additional pressure negates much of that.
The new kids may be good but I'll stick to my 243, case full of N165, 95gr tmk and some leeway for hot days, wet ammo (as happened 2weeks ago) and lower pressure.
To what end is to use one powder (Varget for a quite a while) in 3 cartridges, a 6mm, 6.5x47 and 308.
 
I have recently been informed that RS60 has a lower burn temp than Varget.

Cumbrians velocity out of a 20” barrel with the 105gr bullets is astounding.
 
I have recently been informed that RS60 has a lower burn temp than Varget.

Although 'single-based', H4895 and VarGet are very 'hot' powders with 'heat of explosion' values that exceed those of many 'high energy' or double-based types. That's why they often give such high MVs in suitable cartridges.

There is another factor though in comparing RS60 v VarGet and say H4350. The Swiss powder is one of Nitrochemie's 'EI' grades which use the advanced deterrents infusion process that gives a longer lasting effect than plain surface coating which is the norm. Watch the video interview here:

Alliant Reloder 33 « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

What 'EI' technology does is to stretch out the controlled burning period over a longer timespan and flatten the peak of the pressure curve that shows in pressure v time graphs. What's not to like? you ask. Well, elapsed time from ignition also = bullet movement. So, the period of peak pressure / temperature 1) lasts longer than in conventional powders, and 2) affects a greater length of chamber throat / early part of the rifled barrel. It's wear here that determines barrel life and with this powder characteristics, the badly worn part of the barrel is both longer and occurs quicker than with an equivalent pressure from a conventional powder.

(The same effect occurs in use of a heavy bullet with a slower burning powder than from light bullets using a matching faster burning powder grade. Because a heavy bullet has greater inertia, it starts moving and picks up speed more slowly and a powder that initially burns more slowly is used to keep pressures in check. But the slower moving bullet sees the throat / back end of the barrel subjected to peak heat and pressure for a longer period and they therefore erode and/or firecrack quicker. So, today's F/TR 308 Win shooters using 200gn bullets are seeing short barrel life by 308 standards compared to 'Target Rifle' / Palma competitors using 155s, all other factors being equal. This applies even with relatively cool burning single-based grades such as Viht N150 which is popular with 185-200gn bullets in long-range match loads.)

This isn't a criticism or RS60 or the other 'EI' grades. You get the extra performance, but nothing comes free. To put it into context, if conventional powders give a particular weight bullet 2,800 fps in a given cartridge at full pressure loadings, the traditional way of raising that to say 2,900 or 3,000 fps was to use a larger cartridge whose case held a heavier charge and a slower burning powder was usually, but not always, required to suit the new case/charge to bore area ratio. 2,900 is a 3.6% MV increase over 2,800 and 3,000 is 7.1% rounded to one decimal place. The rule of thumb is that all other things (bullet, barrel length and peak pressure) staying the same, an X% case capacity increase generates an X divided by 4 % MV increase. So using conventional methods, 3.6% higher MVs needs ~ 14.4% case cap increase and 7% + MV needs getting on for 28% more case and appropriate charge.

Taking a real life example, RS60 will enhance the 284 Win's performance with a 180gn bullet by by 150-200 fps in a 30 or so inch barrel if loaded to maximum allowed pressure, ie from 2,800-2,850 up to 3,000 or so fps. To achieve that top end figure through adopting a larger 7mm cartridge, we'd need to enhance the case capacity and charge by somewhere in the 25-30% range to a case holding around 82 - 85.8gn water, as the 'straight 284' case holds around 66gn. The primary larger sevens above the 284 are 7mm SAUM at 72.6gn water capacity, WSM with 81gn and 7mm Rem Magnum with 82gn. So, RS60 is potentiually capable of producing something getting on for 7mmWSM / Rem Mag performance at equivalent pressures. (The larger case jobs may still outperform the 284 / RS60 combination though if loaded to their very high 65,000 psi allowed pressures and/or are loaded with a suitable burning rate powder with a higher energy content than the RS grade.) Using the conventional approach, you'd expect a significantly shorter barrel life from the WSM / RM than from the 284 with the same bullet as well as more rapid barrel heating. RS60 may or may not do the job more efficiently than 'going bigger' - I suspect it does - but there is nevertheless no free lunch in ballistics or the laws of thermodynamics, so there still has to be a significant cost to be paid for such significant gains.
 
I'm getting 3000 fps out of a 20" pipe with a 105 amax using viht 550

In a 243 Win? Hmm. QuickLoad indicates that to achieve 3000fps you'd need 44.0g of N550 producing nearly 72,000 PSI, which is 12,000 PSI above the maximum service pressure. Your rifle is proofed to not exceed 60,000 PSI. Still, some people think it's OK to climb up active volcanoes.

-JMS
 
Last edited:
In a 243 Win? Hmm. QuickLoad indicates that to achieve 3000fps you'd need 44.0g of N550 producing nearly 72,000 PSI, which is 12,000 PSI above the maximum service pressure. Your rifle is proofed to not exceed 60,000 PSI. Still, some people think it's OK to climb up active volcanoes.

-JMS
No pressure signs either iv run this load for 600 rounds and is still fine at I'm using 41.6 grains for 2986 fps to 3007fps
 
In a 243 Win? Hmm. QuickLoad indicates that to achieve 3000fps you'd need 44.0g of N550 producing nearly 72,000 PSI, which is 12,000 PSI above the maximum service pressure. Your rifle is proofed to not exceed 60,000 PSI. Still, some people think it's OK to climb up active volcanoes.

-JMS
Might be long throated....
 
I am going for a 6x47L.
Good choice.
Easy to sort brass in one pass of a die and tuning is sweet too.
I have one with a 20inch barrel and achieve very accurate 2925fps with 105gr Amax.
It's my go to woodland stalking & varmint rifle.
 
Is that what Callum suggested?
No but the rifle I bought 2nd hand on here (a Nesika full custom) went to him (and still is as I have not applied for a variation yet) to give it the once over and barrel shorten.
He suggested that I try it as it came with brass and dies, and typical of Callum`s honesty he said if it does what I want then why change it. He did say it would be easy to re-chamber in 6mm Creedmore.
 
I have to admit i am a massive fan of the 6x47 lapua , i actually chose it in the beginning as a more efficient option than the 243 .
One of the things that amazes me is the cases , they just seem to last forever and must have in excess of 20 firings now.
I am having the 3rd rebarrel done early next year in 6x47 lapua again .
 
If it doesn't meet the SAAMI specification (e.g. by having a long throat or other than a 1:10" twist) then it isn't a .243 Win, it's something based on that cartridge.

Sorry but you lose... first of all we live in CIP-land and secondly also SAAMI might specify MINIMUM chamber dimensions and additonally headspace, maximum is dictated only by test firing where certain things cannot happen (e.g. primers must not fall out). You can have as long throat as you like (which is quite evindent in factory rifles, especially from USA).

 
I have two 6mmAI one heavy with a 24” parallel barrel and one light with a 24” contour 3 barrel both built on Sako 75iv actions bedded into Grs stocks, I’m getting 3570fps with a 87grain v-max. Before that I had a 243AI and although it was a nice round it doesn’t come close to the 6mm
 
Back
Top