950yrd shot at a deer

[Beowulf]

Horay! "The Shooter" comes out on DVD tomorrow! Great new film about a American Marine Sniper. Pure fantasy but good entertainment.
The hero of the film makes killer shots at distances over 1 mile. Just like some of the space cowboys on this site!

MarkH the picture of the American or Canadian sniper with the duvet? Is that standard issue? Are the flowers printed on the duvet or hand embroidered? Would you know how much the fabric cost per metre? I can just imagine all the hunting and surplus stores selling them. " Nah you don't want a ghillie suit, thats old news....a Jaquard quilted bed throw is what you want!"

 

[MarkH]

The duvets are issue items Nato Stock Number SD/17645/HM/65198/MCSS.
There are three type
1. Arctic which has snow flakes,Santa and reindeer in black/white/red
2. Temperate as shown in the picture (roses and ribbobs)
3. Dersert which has cacti, and little donkeys in Sombraros
In addition they are supplied with white plastic garden furniture and small cushions to adjust elevation.
Ghillie suits are available in these colours as well, finished off with a helmet made of IR reflective nomex/kevlar in the shape of a flower pot containing a miniture rhodadendron.
The system works by the deer being attracted initially to the small flowering shrub and as they approach take an admiring glance at the beautiful soft furnishing. This relaxes the beast and its guard lowers.
I have heard in skilled hands the shooter can neutralise multiple targets without disturbing other people in his mothers appartment block.

Mark

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks Mark, very informative. What I am looking for is a full ghillie suit in a 'Burberry motif' for inner city vermin control. I've managed to source the 'Bling' off ebay, but now require the 'wicked gear'. I intend to bait an area with a crate of 'alcho-pops' and social security bennefit forms. Have you any tips concerning this type of hunting? I intend to position myself in a highseat across the road from the local "Chippy-Rama fast food resturant" for maximum cull numbers.


P.S You are out of the zone matey! Ladies and Gentleman Elvis has left the building!!!

 

[smithp18]

Sense of humour

Hi Beowulf
You have an ace sense of humour; and for that matter your not on your own I bet there’s never a dull moment where ever lot are around.
You should all be on the stage. Ever considered it!!

Smithy

 

[Marty]

Re: Limitations and ethics

Is it not more important to always try to work within the limitation of the shooter, climactic conditions and the equipment in use. Than to place a predetermined ethically acceptable distance upon the actual event of pulling the trigger?

Some shooters-hunters in the UK are some what anally retentive when it comes down to what distance you should decline to take a shot at a deer.This is partly due to the historically elitist nature of deer stalking-hunting in the UK. Something our american and continent cousins have managed to over come or never had in the first place, along with the obsession with one shot kills, but that is another matter for another day perhaps.
There is a growing band of shooters-hunters now equipping themselves with the right kit and developing the necessary levels of skill to successfully and consistently shoot deer at ranges our fathers and our more retentive fellow shooters would never have dreamed of.
Is that the right way? Only an individual can decide. Is fox shooting at 350+m any different than deer shooting at 250+m? Many would congratulate the first yet choose to condemn the second.

Find out for yourself and-or come and join the discussion.
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

You never know we all might learn something new. if we approach the subject with an open mind.

Thanks for reading my post

Marty

 

[Beowulf]

Smithy mate, you have to laugh in this world don't ya! I'm bursting for the opportunity to get a load of us together for a drink and let rip!
I virtually live on this sight now! I learn alot, I laugh alot and I feel that I am amongst friends. sometimes my posts are fuelled by too many fizzy apple drinks, but hey, no one gets hurt!
Cheers Smithy!

PS Its not me, its MarkH 'The Mirth Miester'!

 

[Beowulf]

Fair comment Marty. I'm just happy with my methods and worry that some of these individuals are not as experienced, logical or responsible as yourself.
If I can't smell the Dandilion fuelled burp of the deer I'm stalking, it just does'nt do it for me. I like close contact stalking. Each to their own.

 

[MarkH]

I feel the most important factor is a consistent clean kill, the distance is irrelevant except that the further you are away from the beast the more other factors take control such as wind-drift, wobble factor etc etc.
Sometimes the deer can be too close and that poses another series of problems

Mark

 

[Marty]

Circumstance and nature often dictate the behaviour necessary to be sucessfull.
In the US mid west and western states shots of 250+ydrs are common place due too the nature of the terrain etc its the same with european Chamois and Ibex. The same can some times be said for our hill roe and those deer now starting to permently inhabit the prairie like habitat of some of our southern counties.

 

[Marty]

Mark

I think success in the photo you have just posted will depend upon who's bladder lasts out the longest.

 

[MarkH]

I believe but don't quote me he was in normal green hunting clothing before he got in the high seat.

By the way I have placed sandbags on the top of a few hills in Scotland to help with shooting the roe at 200 m+ as it is impossible to stalk closer as the heather/bog myrtle at too dense and high. This was after 18 months of totally unsuccessful stalking by routine techniques.

Mark

 

[300wsm]

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Marty]

If you are MANAGING deer as oposed ot Stalking deer then If you can lay down and shoot them at 300m humanely why waste time a oportunities by trying to get any closer.

A very good point.

 

[devilishdave]

300m

Fair point if you are practiced at 300 and are zeroed at 300 or know exactly what drop you have at that range and can consistantly put every round in a 4" circle at that range. The name of this web site is the stalking directory so lets not get confused and claim that this long range culling is stalking.

Dave

 

[Marty]

Dave

As I have already said.
"There is a growing band of shooters-hunters now equipping themselves with the right kit and developing the necessary levels of skill to successfully and consistently shoot deer at ranges our fathers and our more retentive fellow shooters would never have dreamed of. "

Shots within the BDS 4" roe target kill zone whilst an great ideal to aspire to, are not necessarily always required. The kill zone of a fallow, sika, or red is some where around the size of a dinner plate the bigger they are the larger the target. A good friend of mine now out in NZ working for the kwiwi government, use to shoot most of his hind cull using a method he called Pinning. At ranges that were often rather long even by todays standards.

As 300wsm said there is a difference between deer management and deer stalking.

 

[sikamalc]

There are not going to be many times that most stalkers shoot a deer at over 300yds.

Fallow possibly on a big field? possibly a Chink (if you can tell what sex it is at 300yds) although that is a very small target and I would doubt anyones word that says he/she can judge this at 300yds.

The most common shot at 300yds is going to probably be Red Deer on a Scottish hillside. If its a Stag and you wound it, the beast is going to clear the hill before you even cover the 300yds. If you are culling hinds, you will need to be a very competant shot, account for wind drift (that will be the 2 days out of the year that there is no wind blowing)
and more importantly assess the herd to ascertain which calf belongs to which hind, and which is the yield hind that you want to shoot. After all you do not want a motherless calf running around.

Consistantly shooting at stupid distances is not ethical, and is more likely to go wrong, and nothing to do with how good you think you are with a rifle. Shots at this range are sometimes essential especially if an animal is wounded or appears to be badly hurt or diseased, but to use this as a practice for culling is unprofessional.

Long range shooting is left to the ranges, and cowboys.

 

[Marty]

I agree with everything you have written until we get down to the penultimate paragraph.We will just have to agree to disagree.

It has more to do with competence than with ethics, and those that are competent enough to carry out the practice are always in my experience the most professional of deer managers. Often coming from the ranks of the military and long range target shooting fraternity. They will have expended more ammunition in a year whilst acquiring and honing their skills than the average stalker will shoot in a life time.

I think this discussion will continue endlessly around the edges of the sport forever, I'm sure the old black powder shooters had a very similar discussion with those who where in the vanguard of using smokeless powders and jacketed bullets. I know they had it when telescopic sights started to take over from iron.

It has been good to be able to continue that discuss it with you all here today.

 

[devilishdave]

is it stalking?

Dave

As I have already said.
"There is a growing band of shooters-hunters now equipping themselves with the right kit and developing the necessary levels of skill to successfully and consistently shoot deer at ranges our fathers and our more retentive fellow shooters would never have dreamed of. "

Shots within the BDS 4" roe target kill zone whilst an great ideal to aspire to, are not necessarily always required. The kill zone of a fallow, sika, or red is some where around the size of a dinner plate the bigger they are the larger the target. A good friend of mine now out in NZ working for the kwiwi government, use to shoot most of his hind cull using a method he called Pinning. At ranges that were often rather long even by todays standards.

As 300wsm said there is a difference between deer management and deer stalking.

The point I was making is this is not stalking. Most people with a bit of baisic training can acheive sub MOA with a rifle straight out the box or one that has had a few slight modifications. In theory 1MOA at 100m should be 1MOA at 1000m (About the size of the dinner plate you mentioned for the larger species) but it is not as I am sure you are aware that simple.

The other point I was making is If you can do this consistantly I have no problem with this. It is prudent to practice the more long range shot so you can drop a wounded beast if needs be.

What I dont agree with is this becoming the norm or atleast youngsters to the sport who dont have the equipment and relevant experiance to consistantly humanely drop deer at extended ranges reading this and trying to emulate this on live targets.

Lets not confuse this with stalking. In my opinion the true skill in stalking is getting as close as you can to the target and delivering a humaine shot. if that is what you are doing fair enough.

Deliberately taking long shots on live animals where you could have taken a closer shot so you can brag and inflate your own ego is inexcuseable.

Dave

 

[sikamalc]

The term "Cowboy" in my last post was probably the wrong term of phrase to use. I was relating to the cowboys in the movies who used to shoot at extreme ranges at mobs of wailing Indians, not as in a "Cowboy" stalker. My apologise if it was interpreted wrongly.

I agree that there are some very skilled deer managers who regularly shoot deer at 300+ yds. I have stalked and know some of them, and up until fairly recently was using the larder on an estate in Scotland where they culled a large number of Red Deer. On this particular estate they used custom built rifles in a Max calibre and used mollie coated bullets.

Although they shot an enormous amount of Red Deer on their annual cull, they slipped up on more than one occassion whilst culling. It was only after we managed to see their closely guarded deer records one year that it became apparent that some deer were shot at over 300yds, and the stalker had screwed up, for want of a better phrase. Which resulted in wounded or lost deer.

Make no mistake they were good shots on this estate, but consistently shooting at deer over 300yds will raise the likely hood of wounding more often, sometimes with disastrous results.

At then end of the day it is the welfare of the deer we ALL care about.

Good discussion this, with a great deal of common ground between everyone.

Thank you.

 

[paul k]

It's basically down to the fact that the sport is called stalking not shooting.

I have shot at paper targets at 750 yards but this was with a heavy metal "sniper" rifle on a bipod in a perfect shooting position with charts for windage and drop and it took a few minutes to set the rifle up for the shot.

I managed two out of two "fatal" shots on a fox target and was hitting pigeon targets at 650 yards but all this did was to give me confidence in my abilities. In no way would I ever consider taking a shot at a living target at this sort of range.

If you can't stalk any closer than 300 yards, even on the hill, then give up and take up another sport.