A message to BASC...

[The deer man]

Read it all Connor, still the same old, same old.
BASC have no say in anything the Govt or Police decide, they are still just a club with no power to alter or make changes to the law.

Yes, same old, same old but who else amongst us and amongst all the various shooting organisations do anything to at least try to defend and promote shooting? The best the CPSA can do is bow to political correctness and refer to clay pigeons as clay targets! All the organisations are guilty of rolling over on lead shot and medical references for certificates.

We read and hear a lot of whingeing about what is wrong but what is it people actually want our organisations to represent?
Are there too many organisations so dividing us and our influence?

Perhaps and maybe interesting to see would be a new post where SD members can bullet point 5 real things they would like to see an organisation represent. Not sure people know what they want!

 

[Rewulf]

5 real things they would like to see an organisation represent. Not sure people know what they want

It doesn't really matter if the orgs never ask does it?
BASC told us not to pay the doctors fee thing, and they would sort it, then left us high and dry, when they did nothing whatsoever.
They told us they would fight any lead ban, then, in the blink of an eye, announced they would PROPOSE a lead ban for game, and you know it won't end there.
All this contrary to any interests of shooters.
So what on earth is the point of saying what we WANT, when no one's listening anyway.

 

[Ratel]

It doesn't really matter if the orgs never ask does it?
BASC told us not to pay the doctors fee thing, and they would sort it, then left us high and dry, when they did nothing whatsoever.
They told us they would fight any lead ban, then, in the blink of an eye, announced they would PROPOSE a lead ban for game, and you know it won't end there.
All this contrary to any interests of shooters.
So what on earth is the point of saying what we WANT, when no one's listening anyway.

This.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Yes, same old, same old but who else amongst us and amongst all the various shooting organisations do anything to at least try to defend and promote shooting? The best the CPSA can do is bow to political correctness and refer to clay pigeons as clay targets! All the organisations are guilty of rolling over on lead shot and medical references for certificates.

We read and hear a lot of whingeing about what is wrong but what is it people actually want our organisations to represent?
Are there too many organisations so dividing us and our influence?

Perhaps and maybe interesting to see would be a new post where SD members can bullet point 5 real things they would like to see an organisation represent. Not sure people know what they want!

Excellent post..
Cheers Jimmy

 

[jimmy milnes]

It doesn't really matter if the orgs never ask does it?
BASC told us not to pay the doctors fee thing, and they would sort it, then left us high and dry, when they did nothing whatsoever.
They told us they would fight any lead ban, then, in the blink of an eye, announced they would PROPOSE a lead ban for game, and you know it won't end there.
All this contrary to any interests of shooters.
So what on earth is the point of saying what we WANT, when no one's listening anyway.

With respect i do here what you're saying, however,
Could you enlighten me what the advice from any other organisation was regarding med fees please?
Yes im a BASC member and have been for best part of 15 years, do i think they do enough? No i don't. Do i see any other organisations picking up the standard an running into battle? No i dont.
So thats why these BASC threads keep popping up.. If the other organisations aren't doing anything to fight and just keeping their heads below the trenches an letting BASC take the flack while they take peoples money, whos the real wrong doers.
Cheers Jimmy

 

[Rewulf]

Do i see any other organisations picking up the standard an running into battle

When have BASC done it?

 

[Mike L]

When have BASC done it?

It's polite to answer jimmys question first before asking yours

 

[jimmy milnes]

When have BASC done it?

Like i asked, when have the others ?

 

[Rewulf]

Like i asked, when have the others ?

Straw man argument, I never insinuated the others did, but at least they don't make promises they have no intention of keeping.
BASC put themselves forward as the 'voice' of shooting, but who do they represent, and what exactly are they saying?
They used to have 150000 members, who knows how many now, but are they representing all of us? No.
When do they ask us what we want?
They know the lead ban would be deeply unpopular, but they went off and proposed it anyway, off their own back, and for their OWN interests.
They knew the doctors letter/fee was of great concern, did they lobby? No.
Did the other orgs do anything? No, but at least they never said they would, whether that was because they felt it futile, or just didn't care enough, bothers me not.

A little research into the things basc SAY they've done, the fights and events they say they've championed, often reveals, its not them at all, but other orgs and gov departments.
What is the fighting fund for, if not to fight?
Yet when there is a fight, they are no where to be seen.
Now tell me of these battles they've won for us?

 

[foxdropper]

Here here

 

[T.eddie]

In my opinion, while they may not be successful in all they endeavour to do, I see and hear more about/from BASC than other organisations and at least that can at times help the narrative

I.e I fully appreciate having people from BASC on here actively engaging which I've not seen from other orgs as of yet, I've had multiple chances to answer surveys that the reports go towards potential changes in shooting (I.e. trophy ban) which have been brought to my attention in articles where BASC has been mentioned (appreciate this could come from a mailing list also)

Yes having an MP onto a big driven day may not be the best use of funds, but at least it exposes them to shooting and is trying to form allys in a place where we desperately need them I'm not advocating for or against them everyone can make up there own mind who to use, but the constant bashing of them without any alternatives giving what they don't seems a bit overdone now

 

[jimmy milnes]

Straw man argument, I never insinuated the others did, but at least they don't make promises they have no intention of keeping.
BASC put themselves forward as the 'voice' of shooting, but who do they represent, and what exactly are they saying?
They used to have 150000 members, who knows how many now, but are they representing all of us? No.
When do they ask us what we want?
They know the lead ban would be deeply unpopular, but they went off and proposed it anyway, off their own back, and for their OWN interests.
They knew the doctors letter/fee was of great concern, did they lobby? No.
Did the other orgs do anything? No, but at least they never said they would, whether that was because they felt it futile, or just didn't care enough, bothers me not.

A little research into the things basc SAY they've done, the fights and events they say they've championed, often reveals, its not them at all, but other orgs and gov departments.
What is the fighting fund for, if not to fight?
Yet when there is a fight, they are no where to be seen.
Now tell me of these battles they've won for us?

Hey im not in it for a fight with you, as i said you make some valid points.
Firstly other orgs not making promises to do stuff so not being accountable, surely as they take the money they should be making promises,
Ive mentioned this "the voice of shooting" thing before, its merely an advertising slogan and the worlds full of them, only a fool would pay them any worth.
Ive no ideas how many members they have so i can't comment but as you rightly say id imagine not as many as in previous years an no they probably dont as the members about things often enough.
This lead issue, maybe they got a heads up on the way things were going to go so tried to get ahead of the game an give shooting a better public perception, however the way i see/hear things its the game dealers that are pushing it not BASC.
Med certificate thing we spoke of previously above as in nobody fought it really with any passion, but i dont see your angle saying your not bothered the others didn't fight it, forgive me but it seems a tad single minded.
BASC do say they've been involved in a lot of stuff that comes up which has been joint efforts with others, an once or twice ive though they've made out its all their baby, but i dont blindly believe all i read an if something real sticks in my throat I'll dig to find out if its right or not.
This fighting fund i whole heartedly agree, its there get it used, but then again the like of say British Legion having a rake of money in the bank when ex soldiers need help... But forgive me i digress.
Jimmy.

 

[Rewulf]

Med certificate thing we spoke of previously above as in nobody fought it really with any passion, but i dont see your angle saying your not bothered the others didn't fight it, forgive me but it seems a tad single minded

I don't actually have a huge problem with the med cert, it's caused problems yes, but it's more an issue caused by the doctors , than anything else.
What annoyed me was bascs advice to not play ball , at first, saying they would deal with it, then dropped it like a hot potato when they realised it was beyond their reach , and would likely impact their bank balance.

This fighting fund i whole heartedly agree, its there get it used, but then again the like of say British Legion having a rake of money in the bank when ex soldiers need help... But forgive me i digress

Another organisation that have lost donations , support , and popularity, due to stupid decisions , same as national trust and r n l i

This lead issue, maybe they got a heads up on the way things were going to go so tried to get ahead of the game an give shooting a better public perception, however the way i see/hear things its the game dealers that are pushing it not BASC.

No disrespect , but game dealers influence is minimal , if people refuse to comply with non lead , they wouldn't have anything to sell?
Simplistic thinking maybe , but the lead on game ban has far reaching implications , as when it gathers pace , you will see many people give up shooting.
Less shooters , less voice/influence, then less people to oppose more stringent legislation, then even fewer shooters.
It's a long term strategy, and basc is a willing participant.

 

[Greenmist]

Straw man argument, I never insinuated the others did, but at least they don't make promises they have no intention of keeping.
BASC put themselves forward as the 'voice' of shooting, but who do they represent, and what exactly are they saying?
They used to have 150000 members, who knows how many now, but are they representing all of us? No.
When do they ask us what we want?
They know the lead ban would be deeply unpopular, but they went off and proposed it anyway, off their own back, and for their OWN interests.
They knew the doctors letter/fee was of great concern, did they lobby? No.
Did the other orgs do anything? No, but at least they never said they would, whether that was because they felt it futile, or just didn't care enough, bothers me not.

A little research into the things basc SAY they've done, the fights and events they say they've championed, often reveals, its not them at all, but other orgs and gov departments.
What is the fighting fund for, if not to fight?
Yet when there is a fight, they are no where to be seen.
Now tell me of these battles they've won for us?

Lets not forget to overhaul of the licensing process which wasn't even a list of suggestions on a beer mat

 

[Ratel]

All these discussions are considered right by each and all of the protagonists, so no real conclusion can be drawn.
However, saying the other organisations are not doing anything is being rather silly as most of them have not the big pot of gold that "The Voice" has. Ok the CA has but then if BASC and they had joined as Tyce suggested perhaps we would have still had hunting with hounds and a strong voice for shooting. There is far more strength in numbers and a lot of power with more finance.

 

[jimmy milnes]

I don't actually have a huge problem with the med cert, it's caused problems yes, but it's more an issue caused by the doctors , than anything else.
What annoyed me was bascs advice to not play ball , at first, saying they would deal with it, then dropped it like a hot potato when they realised it was beyond their reach , and would likely impact their bank balance.

Another organisation that have lost donations , support , and popularity, due to stupid decisions , same as national trust and r n l i

No disrespect , but game dealers influence is minimal , if people refuse to comply with non lead , they wouldn't have anything to sell?
Simplistic thinking maybe , but the lead on game ban has far reaching implications , as when it gathers pace , you will see many people give up shooting.
Less shooters , less voice/influence, then less people to oppose more stringent legislation, then even fewer shooters.
It's a long term strategy, and basc is a willing participant.

Yep a total bum steer decision on how to handle the med certificate issue 100%, but sorry i cant help repeating myself in saying where were the other organisations on the matter.
I feel your view on shooters just keep shooting with lead an the game dealers will have to suck it up just wont add up imo. but i could be wrong, i for one certainly don't need to switch to copper if i dont want as i only shoot around half a dozen a year an dont use game dealers "i did once an got ripped off by them so vowed never again"
Cheers Jimmy.

 

[finnbear270]

Jimmy, Why expect the little fella's to fight when the big "Voice" won't?

 

[jimmy milnes]

Jimmy, Why expect the little fella's to fight when the big "Voice" won't?

Morning matey,
The answer to thats surely twofold, firstly id imagine thats what the people paying annual subs to them expect for their money, but secondly an probably if it was my company id be thinking, if i start shaking the tin up, an start to get results ill get more members.
Regards, Jimmy.

 

[Rewulf]

Morning matey,
The answer to thats surely twofold, firstly id imagine thats what the people paying annual subs to them expect for their money, but secondly an probably if it was my company id be thinking, if i start shaking the tin up, an start to get results ill get more members.
Regards, Jimmy.

My C3 membership promises me nothing more than insurance, legal and public liability, it also gives legal advice.
It's cheap, no magazine full of adverts and sage words from well paid execs, telling me how I need to conduct my shooting activities either.
It does nothing more than I expect of it, which is provide the insurance I need.

If we are all honest, that's all most of us wanted from basc.
But we got so much more, poor advice, false promises, and a looming ban on lead shot, that will likely morph into a lead ban on all projectiles.
I don't remember asking for any of it, do you?

 

[jimmy milnes]

My C3 membership promises me nothing more than insurance, legal and public liability, it also gives legal advice.
It's cheap, no magazine full of adverts and sage words from well paid execs, telling me how I need to conduct my shooting activities either.
It does nothing more than I expect of it, which is provide the insurance I need.

If we are all honest, that's all most of us wanted from basc.
But we got so much more, poor advice, false promises, and a looming ban on lead shot, that will likely morph into a lead ban on all projectiles.
I don't remember asking for any of it, do you?

I totally agree, id say 70% of people dont give a monkeys an only join one of the organisations for an easy insurance option.
An no i never asked for anything of the sort. Like i said earlier with reference to the lead thing though, i really do believe it was started long before any organisation got their mouth moving on it, an i honestly believe its game dealer driven in an effort to sell more to a miss informed public. I think the organisations jumped into a moving bus.
Cheers Jimmy.