Accuracy at 1000 mtrs

[Tulloch]

Couple of questions

Are you reading your splashes correct? You maybe actually hitting close but only seeing ricochet splash.

Is there an angle your shooting from? If your shooting down hill even a sleight incline can effect you shooting high at that range this will happen if your shooting uphill too.

Have you read the wind right ?

1000m is a long old way the wind variants from you to there can change sometimes 3 or 4 times. Wind is the hardest in the world to judge it is just too variable.

A bullet with a high BC will help and the .260 is perfect for long range.

Have fun .

Next week if the weather is good I will be testing the Zeiss V8 to 1000yrds on a 4 inch steel plate should be interesting, gonna put it alongside the Zeiss V4 that I am buying tomorrow.

Atb
DT

 

[Muir]

Long range shooting is not a black art. Make sure you plug in all the variables -including humidity- and get a solid rest. ~Muir

 

[woody]

I will get there! crops quite high so not always possible to be prone, but it's a variable I need to get rid of, impressed with the windmetre device Bluetooth to strelok. Just my accuracy to improve on.

 

[Laurie]

I don't think anybody has mentioned scope adjuster accuracy. It's a rare scope whose 'clicks' are 100% accurate. The real long-range no-sighter guys (ELR competitors) invariably do a 'tall target test' to calibrate the scope adjustments so they're dialling in actual as opposed to indicated amounts. This applies to even top end optics - although such scopes are much, much better in this respect than they were only a few years ago.

tall target « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

Known distance target shooters keep records of their actual elevations from a 100 yard zero for each rifle range they shoot on. (Posted 1,000 yards distances are often not exactly that, also range altitude has a noticeable effect when you go beyond 800 yards - Diggle at 980 ft ASL needs approximately 1-MOA less elevation addition to a 100 yard zero for a high BC/MV 308 F/TR round at 1,000 yards compared to the much lower lying Bisley. Higher the altitude the thinner the air / lower pressure = less air drag and slower bullet velocity loss. This is one reason for many of these US YouTube videos of people hitting things amazing distances away on alfresco desert or semi-desert ranges at high altitudes in high temperatures. Each 1,000 ft above sea level reduces the air pressure by around an inch of mercury or whatever its equivalent is in millibars.)

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I really enjoy my stalking, but have started to do field work on gongs now, I want to learn to shoot out to longer ranges for fun!
My chosen flavour is. 260 for this in an Accuracy International rifle.
I can hit a 30" gong at 800 but missing at 1000mtrs, I am using both a kestrel and strelok and both give the same readings, I seem to be shooting 3 ft high and to the right. Why?
Is there something else I need to input into the devices.
Any feedback from people who do this would be great.
Cheers

You don’t mention your settings with Strelok.
Have you got Coriolis effect and spin drift on or off.
As either could affect both drop and or drift.
The other possibility is wind direction. If you’re not putting the direction in ie from the correct side compared to direction you’re shooting. That can affect it. As bullets climb or drop depending on spin direction relative to wind direction.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

http://appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/Firing Solution Check List.pdf is worth a read. Regards JCS

 

[Tulloch]

There is one thing no one has asked .

have you Chrono'd your rifle to make sure your speeds are actual?

 

[NigelM]

For 1st shot impacts at 1000 meters, you have to get the data spot on. Powder temperature is very important with most powders, barometric pressure, ambient temperature, lat and long, direction of fire, etc. In Strelok Pro you need to have Coriolis, Spin Drift and Aerodynamic Jump turned on in the settings page. Get any of these details wrong and you will struggle the further out you get, vertically and horizontally. If you are running Strelok and not Strelok Pro these additional features are not included and might explain a 1000 meter miss.

The fact that the shot solution for 800 meters is correct and your 100m zero is spot on suggests that the BC and velocity you have plugged in are right. Change one of these and your 800 solution will change which you don't want. I have plugged your bullet and velocity into Strelok Pro at a 50 degF ambient and powder temperature and 29.92 inHg and am seeing 7.5 Mils at 800m and 11.1 Mils at 1000 m. 0.1 Mil clicks that's 75 and 111. Not far off where you are but too different to be explained by temp/pressure. Did you adjust either BC or Velocity to get your 80 click impact?

You're also slipping into the transonic zone at 1000 meters. I'm dropping MV to 2650 fps to get your 80 clicks and at that velocity you're running about 1160 fps at 1000 meters. It's a notoriously difficult zone to predict trajectory in especially if you're twist rate is a bit slow and instability creeps in. You might be finding the limits of your rifle/bullet combination.

And all that is without considering truck bonnets, platform stability or tracking accuracy. There are a lot of variables at play here and you just need to work through them methodically one by one until you can pin down where your issue lies.

A great book to read if your getting geeky about it is Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting by Brian Litz. That then leads on to Brian's Custom Curves and licensed products like the Garmin 701 or Kestrel AB which are better solutions than Strelok Pro, but that's getting into a whole new world of sadness

 

[woody]

There is one thing no one has asked .

have you Chrono'd your rifle to make sure your speeds are actual?

Yes, all done when initially inputting data into strelok.

 

[woody]

For 1st shot impacts at 1000 meters, you have to get the data spot on. Powder temperature is very important with most powders, barometric pressure, ambient temperature, lat and long, direction of fire, etc. In Strelok Pro you need to have Coriolis, Spin Drift and Aerodynamic Jump turned on in the settings page. Get any of these details wrong and you will struggle the further out you get, vertically and horizontally. If you are running Strelok and not Strelok Pro these additional features are not included and might explain a 1000 meter miss.

The fact that the shot solution for 800 meters is correct and your 100m zero is spot on suggests that the BC and velocity you have plugged in are right. Change one of these and your 800 solution will change which you don't want. I have plugged your bullet and velocity into Strelok Pro at a 50 degF ambient and powder temperature and 29.92 inHg and am seeing 7.5 Mils at 800m and 11.1 Mils at 1000 m. 0.1 Mil clicks that's 75 and 111. Not far off where you are but too different to be explained by temp/pressure. Did you adjust either BC or Velocity to get your 80 click impact?

You're also slipping into the transonic zone at 1000 meters. I'm dropping MV to 2650 fps to get your 80 clicks and at that velocity you're running about 1160 fps at 1000 meters. It's a notoriously difficult zone to predict trajectory in especially if you're twist rate is a bit slow and instability creeps in. You might be finding the limits of your rifle/bullet combination.

And all that is without considering truck bonnets, platform stability or tracking accuracy. There are a lot of variables at play here and you just need to work through them methodically one by one until you can pin down where your issue lies.

A great book to read if your getting geeky about it is Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting by Brian Litz. That then leads on to Brian's Custom Curves and licensed products like the Garmin 701 or Kestrel AB which are better solutions than Strelok Pro, but that's getting into a whole new world of sadness

No adjustment for BC took that out when missing initially, I think I am getting there its strelok pro, I had a kestrel could not get on with it, my weatherflow has Bluetooth and gives me realtime data to the phone.

 

[NigelM]

The wind data is interesting. I run a Weatherflow to the phone and a Garmin 701 for the ballistic solution. Whilst it's good to know what the wind speed is at the firing point and gives you a base line, there's no substitute for being able to "read" the wind further up the track. What your weather meter tells you is very rarely the whole story so I prefer not to have it feeding the ballistic software automatically.

Keep going. Methodically work through the variables and you will find the answer.

 

[woody]

The wind data is interesting. I run a Weatherflow to the phone and a Garmin 701 for the ballistic solution. Whilst it's good to know what the wind speed is at the firing point and gives you a base line, there's no substitute for being able to "read" the wind further up the track. What your weather meter tells you is very rarely the whole story so I prefer not to have it feeding the ballistic software automatically.

Keep going. Methodically work through the variables and you will find the answer.

I do use a windsock near the target and it is very hard to read, I guess I am aiming for the perfect conditions, every day is a school day!

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I do use a windsock near the target and it is very hard to read, I guess I am aiming for the perfect conditions, every day is a school day!

It’s not that you want perfect conditions. Rather consistent ones, as in picking the right point to pull the trigger. Far easier said than done. I use Strelok pro and for the distance I usually shoot at it works for me. However I am not pushing 1000 yards. There’s a good Facebook group for those that use it. The app designer is on there and is very helpful. He is constantly improving the app. And has incorporated various requested options in to it.
Strelok users group iirc for anyone interested.

 

[woody]

It’s not that you want perfect conditions. Rather consistent ones, as in picking the right point to pull the trigger. Far easier said than done. I use Strelok pro and for the distance I usually shoot at it works for me. However I am not pushing 1000 yards. There’s a good Facebook group for those that use it. The app designer is on there and is very helpful. He is constantly improving the app. And has incorporated various requested options in to it.
Strelok users group iirc for anyone interested.

Thanks for the heads up, I hate FB but will take a look at that group.

 

[woody]

You don’t mention your settings with Strelok.
Have you got Coriolis effect and spin drift on or off.
As either could affect both drop and or drift.
The other possibility is wind direction. If you’re not putting the direction in ie from the correct side compared to direction you’re shooting. That can affect it. As bullets climb or drop depending on spin direction relative to wind direction.

All ticked!

 

[Sonicdmb73]

A mate went on a long range day. The guy used Strelok pro. He didn’t use truing, but altered the zero distance.
The theory is that the app doesn’t take into account near or far zero. But assumes that the bullet is dropping from the zero distance. However it might still be climbing and not drop till further out.
Basically they increased the zero distance from the 100m zero to 150 ish. Till the data matched the hits. I believe he uses a magnetospeed and the Litz bc where possible.
He was hitting a 10”gong at 800m and then rabbits at 600m with a 243 and 87 Vmax. Must be doing something right.

 

[woody]

I

A mate went on a long range day. The guy used Strelok pro. He didn’t use truing, but altered the zero distance.
The theory is that the app doesn’t take into account near or far zero. But assumes that the bullet is dropping from the zero distance. However it might still be climbing and not drop till further out.
Basically they increased the zero distance from the 100m zero to 150 ish. Till the data matched the hits. I believe he uses a magnetospeed and the Litz bc where possible.
He was hitting a 10”gong at 800m and then rabbits at 600m with a 243 and 87 Vmax. Must be doing something right.

I have the summer to practice so weather being good, then there are a few things to double check and work out. Cheers

 

[Eric the Red]

A mate went on a long range day. The guy used Strelok pro. He didn’t use truing, but altered the zero distance.
The theory is that the app doesn’t take into account near or far zero. But assumes that the bullet is dropping from the zero distance. However it might still be climbing and not drop till further out.
Basically they increased the zero distance from the 100m zero to 150 ish. Till the data matched the hits. I believe he uses a magnetospeed and the Litz bc where possible.
He was hitting a 10”gong at 800m and then rabbits at 600m with a 243 and 87 Vmax. Must be doing something right.

There's been lots of good advice in the threads for truing data. Use G7 and not G1. One of the biggest errors is assuming the 100m zero. Even small increments at a 100m, esp when allied with scope-bore height being accurate can make a big difference to getting the ballistic curve to meet what your rifle is actually doing. It should never be more than a click out when you do your bit. If you think your rifle is zero'd at 100, shoot a group at 200-250. The bullet is then properly dropping and will give you a better 'true' zero. The work back to what it really is at 100. When I did this, my true zero was 156 for one rifle, 225 for another.

 

[NigelM]

There tends to be a bit of a step change as soon as the bullet starts to go transonic, around 1340 fps. Instability creeps in, especially if your twist rate is marginal, and the G7 models become less accurate. Bryan Litz has developed Custom Curves for use out to about 3000 meters for ELR which uses dopler radar to measure actual bullet speeds and BC through the zone and out the other side. These curves are available for about 250 different LR bullets now but only on his licensed hardware like the Garmin 701. If shooting inside 800 meters Strelok Pro is very good as most LR bullet/rifle combinations are still supersonic at that range, but if you are stretching out a bit then the Custom Curves give a better solution.

 

[woody]

There's been lots of good advice in the threads for truing data. Use G7 and not G1. One of the biggest errors is assuming the 100m zero. Even small increments at a 100m, esp when allied with scope-bore height being accurate can make a big difference to getting the ballistic curve to meet what your rifle is actually doing. It should never be more than a click out when you do your bit. If you think your rifle is zero'd at 100, shoot a group at 200-250. The bullet is then properly dropping and will give you a better 'true' zero. The work back to what it really is at 100. When I did this, my true zero was 156 for one rifle, 225 for another.

I will give that a go, would be good to find out its true zero.