Advice for a first time FAC application

[TheDeerWalker]

Hi all, I'm at the very start of my application for FAC and have already hit a stumbling block which I wasn't expecting. Wondering if anyone else had these issue or advice to offer.

I've been out on a few stalking outings with friends when I lived down south, and got the bug for it all, then Covid hit and I moved to Scotland (Limerigg, Falkirk area) so lost the ability to continue stalking with friends as I don't know any stalkers in the area. My plans are to get my FAC and look to join a syndicate (with the dream of gaining some permissions from the surrounding farmers and not needing to pay syndicate fees).
Summary of my application:
- DSC1 and Lantra Level 1&2 Completed
- Been on stalks with friends
- Booked in for some guided stalks
- Own a two arce paddock - not that it's much use for deer calibre but was hoping to open up slot for 17HMR or 22LR for the rabbits

I started to complete my FAC application, looking only to ask for 1 centre fire (likely 308) and a rim fire, when I came across the section 21 and 22 in the notes which is about Permissions and showing Good Reason. I feel like these lines can be a tad contradictory
- for Good Reason it says "This evidence can take several forms: permission to shoot over land or membership of a target shooting club, or a booking or invitation to go deer stalking are example".
- Permissions section says "Please proide the address of one area of land where you have permission to shoot"

I assumed that a booking or invitation mentioned in the good reason section would be enough for the permissions. While my plan is to join a syndacate I can't join one until I have an FAC, insurance etc - plus with the wait times for the application I don't want to pay for a syndacate membership until I can make use of it.

I contacted the local FEO asking for confirmation that having invitations would be enough and received this reply:
"1) Good reason – You must have good reason to have a firearm. This can be for target shooting with a club you are a member of or for quarry on land, which you have permission to shoot on.
2) Permissions – see good reason above"

So I rang them asking for more information, to which they refused to confirm or deny whether I met the requirements for the application by making use of invitations, and was suggested to find permissions for the applications.

This didn't sit right with me, as getting the permissions is very hard without the FAC, meaning you get in a loop.

So my two questions:
1) For the deer calibre, have you been in the same situation regarding good reason and permissions?
2) As i'm in no rush for the rim fire, would it maker the application smoother to take that off? Is the fact the permission is a small parcel of land going to cause issues?

I'm assuming that I have misread something here or made a mistake and there can't be anything odd or special about what I'm doing, so thought I'd reach out to all those that have been through the application.

Cheers,
DW

 

[VSS]

Bookings for forthcoming paid stalks will be your good reason for the centrefire.
Pest control on the paddock that you own will be good reason for the rimfire.

 

[T.eddie]

I had my FAC granted after completing one paid stalk with another booked so, keep proof of stalking i.e. invoice or confirmations and you should be fine

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I would recommend joining a local rifle club (or two) where you can shoot rimfire and centrefire.
Regards
JCS

 

[TheDeerWalker]

I would recommend joining a local rifle club (or two) where you can shoot rimfire and centrefire.
Regards
JCS

Did think about that, but the idea of club/target shooting isn't too appealing to me and to add to that the nearest Full Bore Rifle club to me (according to google) is over an hour and a half drive and you have to attend a certain amount of "sessions" even after the application is granted for it to count as your Good Reason, which adds cost and time

 

[stedakell]

I applied for my first FAC earlier this year, and I’m expecting the interview in the next couple of weeks. I began as a stalking novice last year, so I joined a club to practice with different rifles and improve marksmanship and confidence.

But in addition to club membership, after a number of guided stalks with BASC they wrote me a permission letter. And same for the company I took my DSC1 with, which also covered pest control in addition to deer-legal calibres. So that should cover me for the 22lr, .223 and the .308 I’ve applied for.

So maybe it’s something you can enquire about on your guided stalk - they might be happy to put a letter together for you if you plan a few more outings with them?

 

[Husky]

As said above, book some stalking, you can then use that Estate or stalking provider's ground as the place you have permission.

 

[Bowland blades]

Hi all, I'm at the very start of my application for FAC and have already hit a stumbling block which I wasn't expecting. Wondering if anyone else had these issue or advice to offer.

I've been out on a few stalking outings with friends when I lived down south, and got the bug for it all, then Covid hit and I moved to Scotland (Limerigg, Falkirk area) so lost the ability to continue stalking with friends as I don't know any stalkers in the area. My plans are to get my FAC and look to join a syndicate (with the dream of gaining some permissions from the surrounding farmers and not needing to pay syndicate fees).
Summary of my application:
- DSC1 and Lantra Level 1&2 Completed
- Been on stalks with friends
- Booked in for some guided stalks
- Own a two arce paddock - not that it's much use for deer calibre but was hoping to open up slot for 17HMR or 22LR for the rabbits

I started to complete my FAC application, looking only to ask for 1 centre fire (likely 308) and a rim fire, when I came across the section 21 and 22 in the notes which is about Permissions and showing Good Reason. I feel like these lines can be a tad contradictory
- for Good Reason it says "This evidence can take several forms: permission to shoot over land or membership of a target shooting club, or a booking or invitation to go deer stalking are example".
- Permissions section says "Please proide the address of one area of land where you have permission to shoot"

I assumed that a booking or invitation mentioned in the good reason section would be enough for the permissions. While my plan is to join a syndacate I can't join one until I have an FAC, insurance etc - plus with the wait times for the application I don't want to pay for a syndacate membership until I can make use of it.

I contacted the local FEO asking for confirmation that having invitations would be enough and received this reply:
"1) Good reason – You must have good reason to have a firearm. This can be for target shooting with a club you are a member of or for quarry on land, which you have permission to shoot on.
2) Permissions – see good reason above"

So I rang them asking for more information, to which they refused to confirm or deny whether I met the requirements for the application by making use of invitations, and was suggested to find permissions for the applications.

This didn't sit right with me, as getting the permissions is very hard without the FAC, meaning you get in a loop.

So my two questions:
1) For the deer calibre, have you been in the same situation regarding good reason and permissions?
2) As i'm in no rush for the rim fire, would it maker the application smoother to take that off? Is the fact the permission is a small parcel of land going to cause issues?

I'm assuming that I have misread something here or made a mistake and there can't be anything odd or special about what I'm doing, so thought I'd reach out to all those that have been through the application.

Cheers,
DW

You need future bookings for stalking that the FEO will contact and confirm , you are reasonably likely to have restrictions like Accomanied by ..... etc . If you application goes in without deer stalking booked or permision granted and confirmed by your FEO its not going to happen . If you join a target club and thats it you can only apply after your probationary period ( confirmed by the club secretary )

 

[Pedro]

To be honest, it's a bit of a faff. But stick with it.

Joining a club/getting membership of a range is always good. Then if you hit hard times and lose any permissions you might have and can't go on bought days for any reason, then you have that to rely on to keep your certificate in the future, although any renewal will be limited to ranges, but you can alter that in the future if you get more permissions or buy more days. It's ideal for zeroing or just going down to the range for a practice and a craic. Possibly a way to acquire permissions too.

As for stalking, I would get, in writing from whomever you have stalked with in the past what you have done and also book at least one day's stalking for the future to show you have good reason (obviously using an estate rifle) and have paperwork to prove that.

Joining a range club will be a bit of a long process, with a probationary period to be served (I think generally around 6 months and so many visits in that time is average). Of course any outings on deer you book in advance might be history if your application drags on a bit, but if so, book another and be patient. You don't need to be going on one every week or something, but you need to show that you are constant. Maybe a couple a year as a starting point.

Sadly, it isn't like applying for a passport where you just fill in the form, pay the dosh and wait for it to drop in the post. But I think you are going about it the right way and I'm sure, give a while, you'll be fine.

Incidentally, depending on what sort of time you have available, consider searching out pheasant shoots in the area and offer your services as a beater. As well as getting a bit of exercise, it'll get you known by the local shooting community and that can lead to good things.

 

[Kentish]

My fac application was the same, I had a couple of stalks booked and just put the estate where they were, and an explanation that it was paid stalking. As I think someone said above, this isn't like a driving license. Your FEO is going to have a conversation with you - in my case over the initial grant, additional land and 2 variations for additional calibers it's always a friendly and constructive conversation - and he/she will adjust things according to what you agree on if needs be.

 

[Tim.243]

Did think about that, but the idea of club/target shooting isn't too appealing to me and to add to that the nearest Full Bore Rifle club to me (according to google) is over an hour and a half drive and you have to attend a certain amount of "sessions" even after the application is granted for it to count as your Good Reason, which adds cost and time

Plus one for me, you will find the "go join a club" advice comes from a club member. The disciplines are miles apart in handling a rifle by the very nature of field to range/gallery
Yes the safety side of loading unloading miss fire is equal in both but one example one farm has an small gravel pit also it is littered with flint so I don't shoot the rabbits around the top of it as "ping" from a .22lr is not what I want.

Crossing wet ditches getting under/over a fence/gates or picking you way through brambles waiting to trip you up is not in the range officers check list when you sign in.

.

 

[T.eddie]

also plus one re not wanting to join a club, I was part of one, but trying to get time to get to that, as well as working and then wanting to get out stalking, vermin control or game/wildfowling soon found me running out of time and something had to give. safe to say it was the targets as I really had no interest in target shooting and have the extra evening and sunday morning back was helpful as was the payments

 

[Kersnow]

I followed the advice above and applied 13 months ago so be prepared for a very long wait.

My local force sent a generic email out this afternoon saying that they are over 14 months behind and not to contact them and they would try to provide a quarterly update - how very kind of them!

High time the Police were not responsible for licensing or being allowed to hide behind so called backlogs - if they can't provide and effective and efficient service then the task should be taken off them and given to someone who can.

 

[25 Sharps]

Plus one for me, you will find the "go join a club" advice comes from a club member. The disciplines are miles apart in handling a rifle by the very nature of field to range/gallery
Yes the safety side of loading unloading miss fire is equal in both but one example one farm has an small gravel pit also it is littered with flint so I don't shoot the rabbits around the top of it as "ping" from a .22lr is not what I want.

Crossing wet ditches getting under/over a fence/gates or picking you way through brambles waiting to trip you up is not in the range officers check list when you sign in.

.

Joining a club can be very useful, particularly for a new shooter. Join the right club and they will benefit from a wealth of experience on shooting technique as well as safe firearms handling and reloading if that’s a route they choose to go down.

Agree it does not prepare you for making that split second decision on a safe shot in the field but it does have other benefits.

The other thing is according to the guidance once you have a target condition you do not have to provide further good reason to add a quarry condition for that rifle, so a deer condition is easier to obtain…..

 

[25 Sharps]

I followed the advice above and applied 13 months ago so be prepared for a very long wait.

My local force sent a generic email out this afternoon saying that they are over 14 months behind and not to contact them and they would try to provide a quarterly update - how very kind of them!

High time the Police were not responsible for licensing or being allowed to hide behind so called backlogs - if they can't provide and effective and efficient service then the task should be taken off them and given to someone who can.

Careful what you wish for! Licensing going into private hand means it will be driven by one thing and one thing only, profit!

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Hi all, I'm at the very start of my application for FAC and have already hit a stumbling block which I wasn't expecting. Wondering if anyone else had these issue or advice to offer.

I've been out on a few stalking outings with friends when I lived down south, and got the bug for it all, then Covid hit and I moved to Scotland (Limerigg, Falkirk area) so lost the ability to continue stalking with friends as I don't know any stalkers in the area. My plans are to get my FAC and look to join a syndicate (with the dream of gaining some permissions from the surrounding farmers and not needing to pay syndicate fees).
Summary of my application:
- DSC1 and Lantra Level 1&2 Completed
- Been on stalks with friends
- Booked in for some guided stalks
- Own a two arce paddock - not that it's much use for deer calibre but was hoping to open up slot for 17HMR or 22LR for the rabbits

I started to complete my FAC application, looking only to ask for 1 centre fire (likely 308) and a rim fire, when I came across the section 21 and 22 in the notes which is about Permissions and showing Good Reason. I feel like these lines can be a tad contradictory
- for Good Reason it says "This evidence can take several forms: permission to shoot over land or membership of a target shooting club, or a booking or invitation to go deer stalking are example".
- Permissions section says "Please proide the address of one area of land where you have permission to shoot"

I assumed that a booking or invitation mentioned in the good reason section would be enough for the permissions. While my plan is to join a syndacate I can't join one until I have an FAC, insurance etc - plus with the wait times for the application I don't want to pay for a syndacate membership until I can make use of it.

I contacted the local FEO asking for confirmation that having invitations would be enough and received this reply:
"1) Good reason – You must have good reason to have a firearm. This can be for target shooting with a club you are a member of or for quarry on land, which you have permission to shoot on.
2) Permissions – see good reason above"

So I rang them asking for more information, to which they refused to confirm or deny whether I met the requirements for the application by making use of invitations, and was suggested to find permissions for the applications.

This didn't sit right with me, as getting the permissions is very hard without the FAC, meaning you get in a loop.

So my two questions:
1) For the deer calibre, have you been in the same situation regarding good reason and permissions?
2) As i'm in no rush for the rim fire, would it maker the application smoother to take that off? Is the fact the permission is a small parcel of land going to cause issues?

I'm assuming that I have misread something here or made a mistake and there can't be anything odd or special about what I'm doing, so thought I'd reach out to all those that have been through the application.

Cheers,
DW

I think you worry too much about this contradiction.
'Good Reason' includes a scenario where you go out on just ONE guided Stalk p.a. and you want to use your own rifle doing that. Just think about all the people that have heavy safari rifles and may only go on a trip abroad once every few years. They can own their own rifle.
If you have a FEO who does not agree with that, then go over their head directly to the Firearms Licensing Manager.
If you have a Firearms Licensing Manager who does not agree with your proposal than go and complain to your PCC.
But first exhaust your options with your FEO - I find there sometimes is a bit of shadow-boxing, but in the end they are always reasonable and helpful.
And make sure all your communications are IN WRITING and TO BE SIGNED FOR as many Forces seem to have a habit of loosing the emails and do not have a record of telephone conversations.
Obviously you would go a long way to solving your issue if you can join a small syndicate or secure a small permission for deer - and that needs to be substantially more than (I quote you...) 'a one or two acre paddock' and mentioning that is possibly exactly what made your FEO weary of your request, and that is not unreasonable of the FEO.
Best of luck.