Aw fees

[MJ75]

I agree with what you say, but my point is that a stalk in a large deer park can be a far more chellenging experience than one in the wild. The only people who would disagree would be the ones that have never faced the challenge. I have assesed many DSC 2 stalks in both situations and it always takes far more skill in a park situation than wild.

Always? Always? That suggests you've not stalked very much difficult terrain to me.

 

[Huntersforge]

Always? Always? That suggests you've not stalked very much difficult terrain to me.

Well said fella. The shooting of park deer shouldn't be allowed to be put in the DSC2 portfolio. That's my opinion anyway

 

[SussexFallow]

Having done a bit I would say trying to stalk onto a park fallow is far harder than the roe bucks I stalked and shot. As the thread was originally about fees I would like to say I've been charged zilch up to 90 pound for my stalks.
Atb Steve

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

I'm afraid I cannot agree with that .
The approach/stalk involves muzzle awareness, use of terrain, weather conditions, continual identification of the target animal and the method of stalking to approach the animal.
I would suggest that is a rather important aspect of level 2 and when time is taken into consideration, is probably the longest part of the whole scenario and the only part of the level two process that varies with each outing.

+1 100% correct

Sussex Stalker try stalking Fallow in the wild and compare like for like.

jimbo

 

[SussexFallow]

+1 100% correct

Sussex Stalker try stalking Fallow in the wild and compare like for like.

jimbo

Its ill informed comments like that which turns threads sour and puts new members off this site
atb Steve

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

Its ill informed comments like that which turns threads sour and puts new members off this site
atb Steve

If you had a cull figure of 40 Deer you could do it in 1 day in a park but you could not in the wild.

Jimbo

 

[SussexFallow]

You accused the guy of not shooting wild fallow ??
​Atb Steve

 

[sussex stalker]

I would suggest you dont pass comment on a subject you obviously know nothing about..

If you had a cull figure of 40 Deer you could do it in 1 day in a park but you could not in the wild.

Jimbo

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

I would suggest you dont pass comment on a subject you obviously know nothing about..

I have shot Fallow in a park and in the wild i know without shadow of DOUBT which is the hardest to stalk and it is in the wild. I suggest you re read my posts i have not accused anyone of anything.

Jimbo

 

[Huntersforge]

I have shot Fallow in a park and in the wild i know without shadow of DOUBT which is the hardest to stalk and it is in the wild. I suggest you re read my posts i have not accused anyone of anything.

Jimbo

I agree with you Jimbo.
Sussex stalker pull your horns in. Park deer and wild deer are not the same to stalk. Please don't insult the intelligence of the stalkers on here by suggesting otherwise.
HF

 

[User00001]

Having managed both park and wild deer professionally for a few years I can tell you that both present many challenges and the factors involved vary greatly depending on species, habitat etc.

Two things that I do know for certain, firstly when people come on here and say or imply that park culling is easy they have clearly never done any amount of it and, secondly, if I wanted an easy shot for a novice or a more experienced stalker looking to do a DSC2 cull then I would suggest woodland mjntjac or farmland roe every time.

 

[sikamalc]

That rather depends on the type of park. Its far more of a challenge stalking a specific animal out of a large herd and in an area with very little cover below 2m due to browse line than it could be stalking Roe buck in the wild which can be far from a challenging stalk! The actual stalk/approach of the deer is only a very small part of the Level 2...

I have done both park and more often wild.

If you know the park well, you will know your limits and boundaries, and with Fallow depending on the time of year they can be difficult at times in a park situation. Due in many ways to the fact that you have so many in front of you and picking out the right beast, with a safe back stop is not always as easy as one might think.

However you know they are within the confines of a fenced or walled area and therefore you will see deer and there is to my mind a high chance of your securing a beast. And if the stalk onto the beast fails, it will not be long before your back onto another beast. Yes parks have to be big enough for the deer to run away, and many are, but would you say that a 200 acre park is enough for the deer to run wild?

In a wild situation if your stalk fails it is most unlikely you will come onto the animal again. There are variables with both aspects of park and wild, but in my opinion it is not the same as stalking in the wild. How anyone can compare stalking, lets say a park Red Stag, to a wild Red on a Scottish hill side is beyond me. The extraction alone is going to be a lot different off a hillside compared to a park!

To me, and again its my opinion, it is a world apart. I know many mention you only have to prove you can shoot and gralloch 3 deer, and its all the same. But killing 3 deer in a park situation is not comparable to my mind to taking a deer in a wild free range situation.

 

[jamross65]

Surely whether park or wild stalking, each day presents a variance in the stalk and difficulty from the next? What about stepping out the car, walking into a wood for 3mins and shooting a sika stag off the bi-pod as its over the wall and feeding in a field? should that not be allowed either as it was too short and easy?

I know guys that shoot park deer and from what they say there is real skill involved in what they do. A wild stalk can at times be ridiculously easy and at others sooo difficult as well. Just depends on each days circumstances...

 

[digger9523]

Having managed both park and wild deer professionally for a few years I can tell you that both present many challenges and the factors involved vary greatly depending on species, habitat etc.

Two things that I do know for certain, firstly when people come on here and say or imply that park culling is easy they have clearly never done any amount of it and, secondly, if I wanted an easy shot for a novice or a more experienced stalker looking to do a DSC2 cull then I would suggest woodland mjntjac or farmland roe every time.

I'll second that!

I well remember stalking round the park with Glyn looking for one of the red spikers. Searched all over the 600+ acre park for hours till we found them on an island in the lake. Even after they came back on the mainland they led us on a Merry dance!

If we'd wanted it easy that morning we could have found a few Muntjac in the time it took us to get that one rouge.

​

 

[MJ75]

There may be the rare instance when a park deer may be more of a challnge than one n the wild. But that in my opinion would be very much an exception and certainly not the rule. I can only assume someone making such a statement has not stalked very many wild deer, or at least not in many locations. The scottish roe and reds I've pursued have been in pretty wild terrain, where on occasion you have to show a lot of care with each individual footstep.

The deer parks I have visited would require little to know stalking ability, just the ability to snipe from distance over clear ground. Making a sweeping statement such as "always easier" just shows ignorance. I hope those doing their level 2 stick to wild deer in their natural environment if they value the qualification at all. Shooting park deer simply cheapens it in my opinion.

People will be suggesting the use of feed stations like those used in the states next! Followed by shooting from blinds....

 

[EMcC]

People will be suggesting the use of feed stations like those used in the states next! Followed by shooting from blinds....

Wow ! what a good idea, why didn't I think of that.
A nice comfy chair and a flask of coffee, maybe even a Kindle to while away the time while waiting- brilliant

 

[jamross65]

This thread has signs of crumbling into the realms of not showing the deer enough respect to justify including that particular cull animal on a portfolio!

Since when does a witnessed stalk have to be of a certain degree of difficulty before attaining? As was pointed out earlier, whether its a stalk that lasts 4hrs across open heather, or 3min walk into the woods before a beast is shot, if all other criteria about safety, shot placement and carcass handling are met then it qualifies!

 

[sikamalc]

If all three deer were shot on a park, I would not be impressed at all, especially in one day. Somehow to me it seems to skirt around what stalking and pitting your wits against a wild animal is all about, its something that is made to order to a certain extent, and that is not pointing the finger at anyone, its just the way I feel about it.

But again if all the criteria are met its fine, but not my cup of tea I am afraid.

 

[User00001]

I think that we have to accept that individual circumstances are always going to vary. I have AW'ed for a couple of guys who have shot three muntjac in a day, all stalked properly etc, is their DSC2 cert worth any less than than someone's who has shot 3 red stags? No, it's just achieved by a different route.

Personally, I'm glad I took my driving test in a provincial market town rather than central London but I'm not going to beat myself up about it.

As an AW, I like to see candidates demonstrate both a suspended gralloch and a field gralloch on the ground but its up to them, it's candidate led remember, I'm just there to observe, question and record. I have never done an ICR in a park although I have plenty of valid opportunities, I have used park culled deer extensively for DSC2 training which I think people have found very useful.

Incidentally, the reason that I won't do them in a park is not because I disagree with it but because there seems to be a growing number of Assessors who don't have enough professional industry experience to understand the situation. This is something which I am going to take up with an Internal Verifier shortly, not on the subject of parks but just in general.

 

[trevor 8262]

I thought you cannot count park deer as a stalk for dsc2