BASC survey - voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting

[Smellydog]

It's only a guess like but I reckon more birds are killed by vehicles than lead ingestion but I guess that doesn't matter as everyone drives a car!
It's also just a guess of mine but when ever I observe a faction trying to appease or feel an overwhelming need to appease in order to try and secure something it's bloody failed, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but it still fails.

 

[jall55]

It's only a guess like but I reckon more birds are killed by vehicles than lead ingestion but I guess that doesn't matter as everyone drives a car!
It's also just a guess of mine but when ever I observe a faction trying to appease or feel an overwhelming need to appease in order to try and secure something it's bloody failed, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but it still fails.

More birds killed i bet by the chemicals on the land
Or the way that their food sources are smashed to bits by the flail every autumn
Or the number killed by dogs and cats
And so it goes on

 

[HallyButt]

The issue is about risks that can be controlled and those that cannot. With that in mind the key issue is lead shot fired in the open countryside - that risk (which is for birds picking up lead shot as grit) is being targeted through the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting. The restriction proposals for GB and EU are broad brush and do not target the risk and are being opposed. There are two extremes to the debate - those that believe there are no evidenced risks from lead ammunition and no need to change what we do at all - and those that want a full ban on all lead ammunition as soon as possible regardless of the impact on shooting and conservation. BASC and the other shooting organisations are being pragmatic and advocating an evidence-based and proportionate outcome. That is a summary of a complex issue and can be best understood by reading BASC's response to the HSE consultation which can be downloaded here:

BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

Read BASC's response to the Health and Safety Executive's socio-economic consultation on proposals to restrict the use of lead ammunition.

basc.org.uk

Thanks for the insight, a tricky position for sure.

The elephant in the room that must be addressed is that non lead CF rounds are as good, or better than lead in terms of humane outcomes, but steel shot is no way near as effective as lead in achieving a clean kill (pillowcase range aside).

Shooting cannot ignore its responsibility to act humanely at all times and as such steel shot is a redline for me, I’m more than happy to switch to lead free when a suitable alternatives presents itself but not before purely on ethical grounds.

 

[User00053]

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

It's only a guess like but I reckon more birds are killed by vehicles than lead ingestion but I guess that doesn't matter as everyone drives a car!
It's also just a guess of mine but when ever I observe a faction trying to appease or feel an overwhelming need to appease in order to try and secure something it's bloody failed, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, but it still fails.

A better bet would be cats and I guess if the HSE is tasked to look into that under post-Brexit regulations relating to continued trade with the EU it would be interesting to see what would happen.

Killer kitties: cats are eating 2,000 species, including hundreds that are at risk

The first study to quantify what our felines eat on a global scale finds they have a significant impact on wildlife

www.theguardian.com

However, the HSE has been tasked to look at lead in ammunition and many other products under what is called UK REACH and you can see all the product reviews and restriction proposals (which largely mirror EU proposals) here: UK REACH: UK REACH Explained

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

More birds killed i bet by the chemicals on the land
Or the way that their food sources are smashed to bits by the flail every autumn
Or the number killed by dogs and cats
And so it goes on

Indeed, but we have to deal with what the HSE proposals are and the situation for what it is, as per post above, and whataboutery will not win the day in that context, if that makes sense.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thanks for the insight, a tricky position for sure.

The elephant in the room that must be addressed is that non lead CF rounds are as good, or better than lead in terms of humane outcomes, but steel shot is no way near as effective as lead in achieving a clean kill (pillowcase range aside).

Shooting cannot ignore its responsibility to act humanely at all times and as such steel shot is a redline for me, I’m more than happy to switch to lead free when a suitable alternatives presents itself but not before purely on ethical grounds.

Thanks, tricky indeed, and I appreciate your viewpoint and I guess others on here will also have various views on non lead CF rounds and steel shot based on their experience with one or both for their live quarry shooting.

 

[jall55]

Indeed, but we have to deal with what the HSE proposals are and the situation for what it is, as per post above, and whataboutery will not win the day in that context, if that makes sense.

We do - and i have seen steel do ok
But funnily enough out on the rats tonight and had a minor ricochet - with lead shot from the shotgun - wonder how that would have turned out with steel coming back at me ?
Also i wonder what damage could occur and what dangers could be lurking with steel shot getting into various machinery

 

[Smellydog]

We do - and i have seen steel do ok
But funnily enough out on the rats tonight and had a minor ricochet - with lead shot from the shotgun - wonder how that would have turned out with steel coming back at me ?
Also i wonder what damage could occur and what dangers could be lurking with steel shot getting into various machinery

That doesn't matter, as long as the big boys can carry on blasting away at hundreds of pheasants a day you getting blinded by a steel pellet while ratting is worth it!