Basc voluntary lead ban

[Apthorpe]

not sure that is the point really.

If the major market for the end product is the EU then if they ban the import of lead-shot game then what happens to all the game shot in the uk? Unless we have a massive expansion on game consumption in the UK then commercial shooting would inevitably come under even further scrutiny as they would lose their argument for the game being consumed and not just dumped due to no market for it.

It is the point. Firstly the quantity of lead in shot game is not high by comparison with several other foods. Secondly, your point depends on the erroneous presumption that the EU is the major market for UK game.
What information exists does not support that big "if". The EU is at best a minor market for British game.
I am not the only person who thinks that the solution to the problem of commercial shoots killing too many birds, is not to screw up the shooting of everybody else for minimal effect on the root problem.

 

[Odders]

Well done BASC - you LIED to me.
I'll not be renewing my membership, or that of the CA & will actively work to dissuade others from joining, as you no longer have any place pretending to represent hunters & shooters..

Get stuffed.

 

[CarlW]

It is the point. Firstly the quantity of lead in shot game is not high by comparison with several other foods. Secondly, your point depends on the erroneous presumption that the EU is the major market for UK game.
What information exists does not support that big "if". The EU is at best a minor market for British game.
I am not the only person who thinks that the solution to the problem of commercial shoots killing too many birds, is not to screw up the shooting of everybody else for minimal effect on the root problem.

Although I like to resist the criticism of other shooters, and will certainly never betray them in order to save my own sport, I do feel a little sore about your last point, Apthorpe.

I bet I shoot fewer than a dozen pheasants a year, mostly with my 28-bore or .410, when I go for a wander about the place. I also knock over a few rabbits and pigeons. We don't sell them: we eat them. Corvids account for the rest of my cartridges. I no longer accept invitations for driven shooting (although I support its continuance).

Quite why my country way of life is being assailed in order to solve an entirely different problem within our community completely baffles me.

 

[Odders]

Well done BASC - you LIED to me.
I'll not be renewing my membership, or that of the CA & will actively work to dissuade others from joining, as you no longer have any place pretending to represent hunters & shooters..

Get stuffed. View attachment 150928

Oh & here is the outright lie told to me personally via email:

Mr **********,


Thank you for your email. An important point is that we are calling for a voluntary transition over 5 years. This time frame is important because following consultation with industry this is felt to give a realistic enough window to allow the development of effective alternatives where there are currently gaps.

 

[Apthorpe]

Although I like to resist the criticism of other shooters, and will certainly never betray them in order to save my own sport, I do feel a little sore about your last point, Apthorpe.

I bet I shoot fewer than a dozen pheasants a year, mostly with my 28-bore or .410, when I go for a wander about the place. I also knock over a few rabbits and pigeons. We don't sell them: we eat them. Corvids account for the rest of my cartridges. I no longer accept invitations for driven shooting (although I support its continuance).

Quite why my country way of life is being assailed in order to solve an entirely different problem within our community completely baffles me.

Carl,
I think we have crossed wires. I absolutely agree with you.
My point in response to the other guy, was that if the problem is lead shot in the commercial game market, and excess supply of game to the market, then a full-spectrum lead ban is a stupid response to that problem.
Incidentally, it has now made an open target of lead bullets too, because the argument against lead contamination of venison is much stronger than for birds.

 

[CarlW]

Carl,
I think we have crossed wires. I absolutely agree with you.
My point in response to the other guy, was that if the problem is lead shot in the commercial game market, and excess supply of game to the market, then a full-spectrum lead ban is a stupid response to that problem.
Incidentally, it has now made an open target of lead bullets too, because the argument against lead contamination of venison is much stronger than for birds.

I am a bit sore with what's happened; not with you. Wires uncrossed!

It's a bit like when everyone gets chucked out of the taxi just because one muppet can't hold his drink.

Agree re lead bullets...and the alternatives are simply neither suitable nor humane for many purposes.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[Mossypaw]

THE SGA AND LEAD SHOT

Scottish Gamekeepers Association manages Scotland wild places and unites gamekeepers, stalkers, ghillies, wildlife managers and rangers.

news.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk

a better choice of representatives ?

 

[EckyP243]

Joint statement by the Directors of the UK's leading shotgun cartridge manufacturers

Based in the United Kingdom, Gamebore produces high quality, high performance shotgun cartridges for a worldwide market - including specialist loads for grouse and pheasant, wildfowling and also for competitive clay pigeon shooting.

gamebore.com

This should tell you all you need to know .

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. So the biggest, most respected cartridge makers. Bar none. All agree that BASC have not consulted in any way shape or form. That’s it - I’m cancelling my BASC membership. So what’s the alternative folks, can you recommend a non bias insurance firm for me please. I stalk and shoot. Thanks

 

[Mossypaw]

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. So the biggest, most respected cartridge makers. Bar none. All agree that BASC have not consulted in any way shape or form. That’s it - I’m cancelling my BASC membership. So what’s the alternative folks, can you recommend a non bias insurance firm for me please. I stalk and shoot. Thanks

see post #367 above

 

[sako85708]

I wonder how many of us would be members of BASC if they didn't offer insurance ??

 

[reloader54]

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. So the biggest, most respected cartridge makers. Bar none. All agree that BASC have not consulted in any way shape or form. That’s it - I’m cancelling my BASC membership. So what’s the alternative folks, can you recommend a non bias insurance firm for me please. I stalk and shoot. Thanks

more than that,, it appears when questioned about it the claimed they had discussed it with them?
so someone looks like they're telling porkies.

Basc voluntary lead ban

not sure that is the point really. If the major market for the end product is the EU then if they ban the import of lead-shot game then what happens to all the game shot in the uk? Unless we have a massive expansion on game consumption in the UK then commercial shooting would inevitably come...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[User00047]

I wonder how many of us would be members of BASC if they didn't offer insurance ??

I believe wholeheartedly that the vast majority of BASC/CA members are there purely for the insurance. Not many people engage with these organisations and make their voices heard.
People make the assumption that they (BASC/CA etc) are doing something useful with their membership fees, busily fighting our corner and looking after our interests and for a long time, the people actually running BASC/CA have just done whatever they feel like doing without needing to explain it to the membership because basically, nobody really seemed to be very interested.
That’s the way I see it anyway.

 

[Mossypaw]

https://www.sacs.org.uk/media/uploads/cat-252/sacs-clarification-statement-on-lead-shot.pdf

so they lied to the other signatories too.....or are sacs being disingenuous ?

 

[sauer]

Well done BASC ! Own goal
Anyone who defends these idiots .... seriously ! This is who we have supposedly protecting our interests....

Consult with ammo manufacturers before their statement ? Eh ... no

STATEMENTS RE: NON-LEAD | Hull Cartridge

www.hullcartridge.co.uk

 

[User00025]

Well my temper has abated and I didn't have a stroke. Managed to murder a magpie with 24gr of lead out of my "Obsolete" English sidelock and strangle a Carrion crow.
Must ring my old pal Alec Hogg at SGA and see where they really stand on the NGO and lead before joining their ranks.

 

[Brno2e]

What tears me apart is the Lemming syndrome the other orgs have done in haste to follow basc over the edge. I have supported the NGO many years after falling out with basc 20 odd years ago but they are just as stupid as basc now.
As previously stated most of the orgs have shafted us the arse and my ring stings.
I really fear for the future.

 

[merlin]

https://www.sacs.org.uk/media/uploads/cat-252/sacs-clarification-statement-on-lead-shot.pdf

so they lied to the other signatories too.....or are sacs being disingenuous ?

....interesting wording from SACS... and it would be very interesting to know the basis of their "understanding", particularly what was said to them and by whom.....

 

[EckyP243]

I stupidly believed that they were the biggest to lobby our cause. What for me is that politically they are very organised and to be fair always alerted me to changes in licences etc etc often with the option of feeding into things like the trophy hunting consultative process. Clearly I had wool over eyes....

 

[paul o']

My Org has just sent me this ? so why did they take some others statement as the facts ??? "dogs and tails anyone "

Dear SACS Member,

Following the cartridge manufacturer's joint statemen today, SACS wishes to clarify that it is our understanding that cartridge manufacturers were consulted on the proposed five-year transition from lead shot in live quarry shooting with shotguns.
Please find below our full clarification statement.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact SACS Director Alex Stoddart on 07879 550750.
Best wishes,

The SACS Team

 

[Roestalker39]

I stupidly believed that they were the biggest to lobby our cause. What for me is that politically they are very organised and to be fair always alerted me to changes in licences etc etc often with the option of feeding into things like the trophy hunting consultative process. Clearly I had wool over eyes....

Sadly many believed this , it’s a shame it really is but they lost thier way many years ago