paulux
Well-Known Member
Why ? Which species of deer are you thinking of ? This thread is about roe and muntjac.
Best caliber for muntjac, Roe, Fox
- Thread starter J111
- Start date
Why not? Did you have a particularly bad experience?
The bulk of what I shoot are roe. A few munties and fallow thrown in. I found the .243 very harsh on the carcass and that's why I don't rate it.
All the fans of .243 come back saying I was using the wrong bullet etc. I disagree. I home loaded a number of well respected deer bullets and tried them, and I didn't get on with any of them. I'm no amateur. I'm not a professional stalker but I've shot enough deer to say that a lot of pay per day stalkers would be happy with my tally in a lifetime and I've done it with a number of different rounds.
The conclusion I've come to with shooting in general is that fast and light is best for instant kills on vermin and foxes. Slow and heavy is best for tidy kills on species you want to eat. 6.5x55, 7-08, 7x57... That's my recommendation to anyone who asks. I've used and been happy with them all.
I'd rather shoot a munty with my .338 than a .243. I've shot them with both and even with double the energy of the .243, the .338 just punches a neat hole. It's got to be the velocity that does the damage. There's nothing else I can think of to explain it?
All the fans of .243 come back saying I was using the wrong bullet etc. I disagree. I home loaded a number of well respected deer bullets and tried them, and I didn't get on with any of them. I'm no amateur. I'm not a professional stalker but I've shot enough deer to say that a lot of pay per day stalkers would be happy with my tally in a lifetime and I've done it with a number of different rounds.
The conclusion I've come to with shooting in general is that fast and light is best for instant kills on vermin and foxes. Slow and heavy is best for tidy kills on species you want to eat. 6.5x55, 7-08, 7x57... That's my recommendation to anyone who asks. I've used and been happy with them all.
I'd rather shoot a munty with my .338 than a .243. I've shot them with both and even with double the energy of the .243, the .338 just punches a neat hole. It's got to be the velocity that does the damage. There's nothing else I can think of to explain it?
Have to totally agree with your thoughts and findings about the. 243
Using a .300-Win-Mag with 200gr Lapua Mega gave a far cleaner carcass than any shot with a .243 no matter what Projectile used.
And I've shot and seen enough shot
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
Just looking at records and recollecting the last 100 munties with Nosler BT 95g, I can only remember the odd one that I'd consider damaged over and above what would be normal for a dead deer. 39.3 grains of H4350 does everything up to fallow very efficiently, obviously not the quickest but results in efficient kills time after time.
About 90% of all venison, munties included goes to the game dealer and I've not had any complaints which I suppose means more than my opinion. I can only remember 2 occasions when this combination did not exit, on a fallow and once on a muntie and has always provided the type of exit you need for a blood trail should the animal run. This has been my experience on approx 500 animals using this load, mainly Fallow, muntjac and roe. If there is any difference between species, roe suffer more than muntie.
No experience with this on Sika as I've always used 100g partition.
About 90% of all venison, munties included goes to the game dealer and I've not had any complaints which I suppose means more than my opinion. I can only remember 2 occasions when this combination did not exit, on a fallow and once on a muntie and has always provided the type of exit you need for a blood trail should the animal run. This has been my experience on approx 500 animals using this load, mainly Fallow, muntjac and roe. If there is any difference between species, roe suffer more than muntie.
No experience with this on Sika as I've always used 100g partition.
Have to totally agree with your thoughts and findings about the. 243
Using a .300-Win-Mag with 200gr Lapua Mega gave a far cleaner carcass than any shot with a .243 no matter what Projectile used.
And I've shot and seen enough shot
Thanks for your thoughts (both). I am starting to think I'm just going to stick with my 30-06 and not bother getting another 243.
Thanks. Well, I've got a 17 hornet which is my 'safe' fox round.
I think I might flog the 243 and put the money to some reloading kit..
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
Whilst I only have a.308 in a larger calibre,I agree with everything you've said. I've seen the result of .243 in small to medium game and even with 90 or 100 grain bullets, it just seems to hard on something as small as Munty with the velocities involved. The .308 run at a comparatively gentle 2550 to 2600fps at the muzzle using 150 soft points = larger wound channel and less meat bruising.
My advice would be to use a fairly heavy, premium bullet for all of them. On the big deer they will perform as designed and hold together giving good penetration and knock down. On the smaller deer they will hold together a little too well, expand less and waste most of their energy in the backstop. Considering you only legally need 1000ft-lbs to shoot munties legally that's not a problem at all. It will still drop them in their tracks.
That's what seems to work with my .338. I use 225gr Federal Fusion factory rounds and they go through a munty like it isn't even there. The damage is perfectly acceptable.
That's what seems to work with my .338. I use 225gr Federal Fusion factory rounds and they go through a munty like it isn't even there. The damage is perfectly acceptable.
I bought a .243 as a fox/small deer rifle last year to replace my .222. TBH its mostly a fox rifle but I've shot yearling roe does with it and I can't complain.
Admittedly, when I shoot young roe they're invariably freezer fillers and I get to pick my time and spot so they're usually neck or head shot to maximise the carcase meat. I've got a .308 for everything else.
I like the .243 as a vermin cartridge, especially with 58 grn Superformance which are giving 3850 fps. Its point and shoot. I have heart-shot a small roe with these rounds and it actually wasn't catastrophic by any means. The bullet did exit - I didn't think it would. I deliberately shot a little low and a little forward to make sure the rumen didn't get pricked and both sets of ribs were usable with little trimming. The nearside foreleg was forward and the offside leg was back so the top of the off-side leg between the second joint and the shoulder did catch the bullet, or part of it, on the way out, but the shoulder itself was perfectly usable.
Needless to say I wouldn't make a habit of this because there's no knowing how the bullet will fragment inside the carcase and next time I may not be so lucky and the lot could get trashed, rumen and all.
However I don't feel discouraged by this thread. Its a Sako 75, lovely to shoot and with a Jet Z up front there's very little recoil with those light bullets. Its a cracking, easy to shoot long range vermin tool and if I was sitting in a high seat anticipating the chance of a head shot for some freezer meat I'd have no hesitation taking this rifle, even with the fast rounds.
I nearly bought a .22-250 but for all the disadvantages of the .243, having a fox rifle that's legal for deer is very handy. I'm happy with it.
I suppose if I didn't have a .308 and wanted one calibre for everything including foxes a .260 would probably be my choice.
Admittedly, when I shoot young roe they're invariably freezer fillers and I get to pick my time and spot so they're usually neck or head shot to maximise the carcase meat. I've got a .308 for everything else.
I like the .243 as a vermin cartridge, especially with 58 grn Superformance which are giving 3850 fps. Its point and shoot. I have heart-shot a small roe with these rounds and it actually wasn't catastrophic by any means. The bullet did exit - I didn't think it would. I deliberately shot a little low and a little forward to make sure the rumen didn't get pricked and both sets of ribs were usable with little trimming. The nearside foreleg was forward and the offside leg was back so the top of the off-side leg between the second joint and the shoulder did catch the bullet, or part of it, on the way out, but the shoulder itself was perfectly usable.
Needless to say I wouldn't make a habit of this because there's no knowing how the bullet will fragment inside the carcase and next time I may not be so lucky and the lot could get trashed, rumen and all.
However I don't feel discouraged by this thread. Its a Sako 75, lovely to shoot and with a Jet Z up front there's very little recoil with those light bullets. Its a cracking, easy to shoot long range vermin tool and if I was sitting in a high seat anticipating the chance of a head shot for some freezer meat I'd have no hesitation taking this rifle, even with the fast rounds.
I nearly bought a .22-250 but for all the disadvantages of the .243, having a fox rifle that's legal for deer is very handy. I'm happy with it.
I suppose if I didn't have a .308 and wanted one calibre for everything including foxes a .260 would probably be my choice.
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