Brexit

[mchughcb]

May just handed over the letter. I would have thought a email would suffice. Now the press is saying immigration wont necessarily be curbed and the greens are still claiming free movement.

At least its started.

 

[tackb]

May just handed over the letter. I would have thought a email would suffice. Now the press is saying immigration wont necessarily be curbed and the greens are still claiming free movement.

At least its started.

thankfully the ******** greens aren't in power !

 

[NigelM]

I voted remain, but now the letter is delivered and the negotiation has started it's too late to do anything about it. The trigger has been pulled, the bullet has been sent. We now have to negotiate the best deal we can get, and if we don't like it we will have to renegotiate the terms of our re entry - which will not be as good as what we had yesterday.

Now we have to stop whining and just get on with it. The government have to do the best deal they can do with the EU and make the most of the opportunities we have outside the EU. It will be the combination of the two that will make our economy succeed or fail in the future.

 

[Hayduke]

I voted remain. But I am over it.
Hopefully the racism will go back in the box (it was always around although Brexit caused a spike in abuse / attacks, it is and will remain illegal and hopefully racists will always be challenged and prosecuted whenever they rear their nasty heads).

Hopefully we will prosper, and employment and pay will grow.

I won't miss the grinding, soul destroying and prohibitive bureaucracy that accompanies efforts to do anything with EU funding (however beware we do a flipping good line in dumb bureaucracy ourselves that stifles the economy, we can't blame the EU for everything) I won't miss the inequity of flinging billions of hard earnt money 'subsidies' at landowners who don't need it whilst the NHS crumbles. I wont miss the ever centralising power of the EU project. I won't miss our fishing fleets getting humped over a barrel whilst EU boats empty our seas and fling away decent food as 'bycatch'.

I will be gutted if Brexit and the tories precipitate the end of the UK, and Scotland leaves over this. I don't blame Sturgeon and the SNP, they like all politicians play the hand they are dealt, to theirs and their constituents advantage, and May dropped this one right in her lap. Many of my friends who voted No in the first Indy ref have switch to Yes. To save the Union the Government is going to have to pull some seriously good rabbits out of the hat.

 

[enfieldspares]

And make the most of the opportunities we have outside the EU

I hope you are right. But what opportunities? The Americans our historical rivals will screw us over domestically in Congress and worldwide with local "grease".

We can't out price China, nor India, who will always underbid us.

And both can outdo even the Americans in generous applications of "grease".

And as India has already rebuffed, in those terms, foolish Mrs May, the Commonwealth nations now want "free movement of people" to the UK as the price of "free movement of goods" from the UK.

The Commonwealth of 2017, white, black, brown isn't that of 1947 or 1967. Politically it will no longer accept free UK access to its markets if its peoples are denied access to the UK.

But it's wrong OTOH to say "Leavers" are somehow racist to resent the uncontrolled influx of Eastern Europeans.

That's not racism. It's a natural and justified reaction.

Many are just sick and tired of being treated as second class citizens in our own country in comparison to newly arrived Eastern European nationals.

We are a tolerant and generous people the British.

But we resent being treated as "mugs" even to paying Road Tax and speeding fines that appear ignored with impunity by those with Polish or Roumanian plated vehicles.

And that's nothing compared to the outrageous difference in immigration rules applied to British nationals and our Commonwealth family members in our own country as against Eastern Europeans here in the UK.

 

[mchughcb]

Plenty of opportunities outside EU

 

[howa243]

Plenty of opportunities outside EU

Like this bloke!

I agree with enfieldspares, if I have interpreted correctly. Its the politicians fault. Different policies could have reduced the impact of immigration and this would have lead to us staying. We are apathetic till pushed. Even a cursory glance at history will show that we will push back regardless of the odds if we feel we are being forced into a corner. The EU and the political elite here have done that.

 

[Chasey]

Plenty of opportunities outside EU

Its a bit like a business owner saying you'd get a better deal from the management if you wern't a member of a trade union.

So lets look at this

Hes pointing out there is an opportunity for better trade with a country that is about as far away as it gets? Great

Hes saying that America was unable to screw over the EU on a trade deal because the EU was powerfull enough to stand up to them

Hes saying that power of the EU has prevented other countries trading with EU members on contracts that are beneficial to them selves because even if the country they are deelin with isn't powerfull, it is if its inside the EU





Its like James Dyson saying how great Brexit is because for him it is.
All his stuff is produced in China and Thyland so hes confident he can get a deel that has better terms FOR HIM once we have left the EU

 

[Chasey]

I voted remain. But I am over it.
Hopefully the racism will go back in the box (it was always around although Brexit caused a spike in abuse / attacks, it is and will remain illegal and hopefully racists will always be challenged and prosecuted whenever they rear their nasty heads).

It wont.

It could get worse once people realise Brexit will make absolutely no diferance at all to immigration. Yes as an employer I will have to do more bloody paperwork but aside from that it not gong to change. There will no doubt be some publicity stunts probably focused on Muslem countries as they are an easy whipping post but lets face it the Muslem immigration issue doesn't actualy exist. It may have done if Turkey got in to the EU but that's just not going to happen now.

The government will buy a bit of time but the Daily Mail will be announcing increased immigration figures and floods of workers coming in to beet the deadline and the racest element which felt it had some form of justification for its foul existance post Brexit, will get excited again.

Hopefully we will prosper, and employment and pay will grow.

We cant even start to negotiate outside the EU till 2020 and as pointed out the best guess for untangling EU memebership is 2024-5

I won't miss the grinding, soul destroying and prohibitive bureaucracy that accompanies efforts to do anything with EU funding (however beware we do a flipping good line in dumb bureaucracy ourselves that stifles the economy, we can't blame the EU for everything) I won't miss the inequity of flinging billions of hard earnt money 'subsidies' at landowners who don't need it whilst the NHS crumbles. I wont miss the ever centralising power of the EU project. I won't miss our fishing fleets getting humped over a barrel whilst EU boats empty our seas and fling away decent food as 'bycatch'

.

As you rightly say I cant see the UK bureaucracy being any better and we will still have to comply with all EU standards if we want to export to them so again I am not seeing any releaf in this area.

I don't reely have a view on the land owners? I don't know enough about it but I assume like the organic sheep farmers thing, they will just go bankrupt? I don't know for sure.

The NHS will always be strapped for cash. Its a botemless pit and I do not believe for one second the people running it are above using emotive publicity to further their cause where the real problem is the new wonder drug for cancer costing 10s of millions or the new 3d VR hyper scanner robotised operating macheen costing billions that we all demand to have access too

The NHS was envisigned when all we had was penicillin and an X ray Machen. The advances (and cost) of modern medicin were not allowed for in the estimation of NI.

With the speed of progress in medicin, it can only get much worse.

I don't understand the fishing thing either but It does all seem a bit mad on face value but then so is raping the ocians to the point of extinction

I will be gutted if Brexit and the tories precipitate the end of the UK, and Scotland leaves over this. I don't blame Sturgeon and the SNP, they like all politicians play the hand they are dealt, to theirs and their constituents advantage, and May dropped this one right in her lap. Many of my friends who voted No in the first Indy ref have switch to Yes. To save the Union the Government is going to have to pull some seriously good rabbits out of the hat.

Like your friends id have voted no but now yes.

I am retireing / leaving England in 2020 and I was keeping one of my small flats in Margate as my UK residence for the two months a year I plan to come back and visit. I don't know if its possible, but if it is and they vote out, ill ditch that Idea and buy a property in the south of Scotland instead so I can keep my freedom to travel and work in the EU.

 

[mchughcb]

China ain't that much further than Australia and they deal with everybody. Maresk super ships make it cheaper to transport a bike from china to London than to transport the bike from London to Clapham common.

He's saying after 20 years of no deal, what are you going to say in 40 years - we showed them?

Better to deal with countries you negotiated a free trade deal with than to spend 50 years negotiating with a country that wont?

 

[Chasey]

China ain't that much further than Australia and they deal with everybody. Maresk super ships make it cheaper to transport a bike from china to London than to transport the bike from London to Clapham common.

He's saying after 20 years of no deal, what are you going to say in 40 years - we showed them?

Better to deal with countries you negotiated a free trade deal with than to spend 50 years negotiating with a country that wont?

What on earth are you talking about? It takes 9 days to get a container to Dampier in Aus and 15 days to Sydney

Flight time is 21hours + a stop over so min more like 30 hours

It takes 3 days to get a container to Shanghi in China? and 10 hours to fly to Beijing

 

[Heym SR20]

So we want to get rid of all the European bureaucracy and legislation.

So the first thing the government does is to bring a bill that enshrines all of the EU legislation into British Law.

At the risk of being very thick can you actually see the Westminster Parliament actually repealing any of the legislation.

Our MPs have endlessly talked about simplifying our tax system, which requires repealing lots of legislation. Has it happened?

And Firearms legislation

and .........

Have I missed something???

 

[JTO]

Trains are now bringing containers from China to Europe, quicker than by sea and cheaper than by air.

 

[Pine Marten]

Personally I can't bring myself to read any more coverage of this. It's like pouring lemon juice into a thousand little cuts. Yeah yeah, I know, poor little snowflake, serve you right, blah blah blah. But that's how it is.

 

[JAYB]

I think it is almost criminal the amount of energy, resources, time and effort being put into the news coverage of Brexit, especially as most of it is nonsense. The vote has been and gone, article 50 has now been implemented, surely now is the time for the whole Country to move forward as one in order for the best outcome possible to be achieved.

Constant harping on about what has happened and can't be changed is an absolutely fruitless exercise. If the media would adopt a more positive attitude then I am sure that a much more "grown up" approach would be taken by the whole Country. Irrespective of the way people voted in the referendum, surely the responsible thing to do is to try and do the best you can for the whole Nation and stop bloody whingeing. The negotiators in this need public support in order to get the best deal possible, we do not need the media wheeling out some 100 year old ex ministers to give their befuddled opinion. It's not rocket science, surely it is common sense.

But, I bet nothing changes after all moaning is almost a National sport.

John

 

[Hornet 6]

surely now is the time for the whole Country to move forward as one in order for the best outcome possible to be achieved.



John

But that cant happen as it has been very clear we are only leaving the EU in name only.
We are keeping all that is wrong with the eU like the million and one pointless rules we now have.
It seems 'our' government want immigration to stay as it is, so don't look for any changes there either.

What we needed was to just say up your to the whole lot of it, and go back to where we were where it
was just the common market, if that wasn't possible then junk the whole lot.

Home rule by an elected government that was fully answerable to the population is what I voted for.

Neil.

 

[Pine Marten]

Home rule by an elected government that was fully answerable to the population is what I voted for.

Neil.

Could you perhaps show us where that was on the ballot paper?

 

[Hornet 6]

Could you perhaps show us where that was on the ballot paper?

Or maybe you could stop being a smartarse and stop moaning that you wanted to stay in the EU

I didn't want any part of what the EU stood for and voted appropriately.

 

[Apthorpe]

What on earth are you talking about? It takes 9 days to get a container to Dampier in Aus and 15 days to Sydney

Flight time is 21hours + a stop over so min more like 30 hours

It takes 3 days to get a container to Shanghi in China? and 10 hours to fly to Beijing

That's all got very little relevance. On a recent quote i had it cost nearly seven times more to get a container shipped across the EU than it did to get one shipped from China. McHugh is right. People underestimate enormously the efficiency of long distance international shipping. Distance really doesn't add significantly to cost.

While the EU might be a big single market, there are three large problems: it's not a functioning single market in what the British economy produces, secondly we have negligible trade with a large proportion of that market, and thirdly, it's not a free market if we're paying large sums to subsidise the other participants in the market.

 

[NoIDeer]

But that cant happen as it has been very clear we are only leaving the EU in name only.
We are keeping all that is wrong with the eU like the million and one pointless rules we now have.
It seems 'our' government want immigration to stay as it is, so don't look for any changes there either.

What we needed was to just say up your to the whole lot of it, and go back to where we were where it
was just the common market, if that wasn't possible then junk the whole lot.

Home rule by an elected government that was fully answerable to the population is what I voted for.

Neil.

Our legal system is so interwoven with Europe that we have to start somewhere. It makes a lot of sense to enshrine European law, into British law before dismantling it and changing it to suit ourselves.