Bullets or Heads. "30-06" or "30 ought Six"

Just for S###S and giggles. Why do some people get out of their prams when a bullet is called a head, everybody knows what it is and nobody (except Prince Charles maybe) speaks the queens English properly. Also why on earth do some people say "30-ought six" when they are not in America or even Americans.
Steve.
More interesting would be to know why people get out of their prams to defend their right to call a bullet a "head".

The etymological derivation, and usage of "bullet" by all the actual bullet manufacturers (yes, even Sako with their hammerhead bullets) is never countered by an equally logical explanation of any advantage of renaming them heads. Let alone "bullet heads".

The nearest to an explanation/justification is the anthropomorphising of the cartridge parts that @ejg always proposes in these discussions...body, shoulder, neck, head. But then he always ignores the fact that the cartridge case neck ends with the case mouth...his "head" is now being seated in the "mouth"...if the bullet just perched on the end of the case neck, maybe there would be a justification...but it doesn't.

He also ignores pistol and 22LR straight wall cartridges which have no shoulders or necks in this anthropomorphic justification.

But as an engineer I am surprised that he doesn't appear to acknowledge or accept that the manufacturers of cartridge cases, named the case's parts after the processes of manufacture.

So the stamping press produces the basic cup or slug.The drawing press produces the tube. The primer end is then headed up. Formed in the same way that a rivet or a bolt is headed up by pressure on the end whether rimmed or rimless. The primer pocket and head markings are then stamped in.

This gives rise to the gunsmith's term "headspace". It is important everybody knows what is meant by that...there have been a number of occasions on here when newby reloaders have confused headspace with the jump to the lands dimension.

The case tube is necked down in a swage or necking die and the step down/transition thus produced is referred to as a shoulder in just the same way of the shoulder surrounding a tenon in joinery.

There is a good reason why bullet should continue to describe the projectile.

If for any reason you really couldn't bring yourself to use "bullet" then it would be less confusing if a word other than "head" be used. For instance, given the fact that @ejg wants to ignore the engineering terms and anthropomorphise the cartridge then something that sticks out of a mouth like "tongue" or goes into a mouth like "bite" or "bolus" would be more logical...bolus would actually be quite elegant with its bullet, boullette, boulle similarity.

What I find strange is the arguing for the perceived advantage of temporarily changing the bullet manufacturer's own description of bullet to "head" by the retailer and purchaser...but then reverting to bullet to describe the holes made in the target.

Alan
 
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More interesting would be to know why people get out of their prams to defend their right to call a bullet a "head".

The etymological derivation, and usage of "bullet" by all the actual bullet manufacturers (yes, even Sako with their hammerhead bullets) is never countered by an equally logical explanation of any advantage of renaming them heads. Let alone "bullet heads".

The nearest to an explanation/justification is the anthropomorphising of the cartridge parts that @ejg always proposes in these discussions...body, shoulder, neck, head. But then he always ignores the fact that the cartridge case neck ends with the case mouth...his "head" is now being seated in the "mouth"...if the bullet just perched on the end of the case neck, maybe there would be a justification...but it doesn't.

He also ignores pistol and 22LR straight wall cartridges which have no shoulders or necks in this anthropomorphic justification.

But as an engineer I am surprised that he doesn't appear to acknowledge or accept that the manufacturers of cartridge cases, named the case's parts after the processes of manufacture.

So the stamping press produces the basic cup or slug.The drawing press produces the tube. The primer end is then headed up. Formed in the same way that a rivet or a bolt is headed up by pressure on the end whether rimmed or rimless. The primer pocket and head markings are then stamped in.

This gives rise to the gunsmith's term "headspace". It is important everybody knows what is meant by that...there have been a number of occasions on here when newby reloaders have confused headspace with the jump to the lands dimension.

The case tube is necked down in a swage or necking die and the step down/transition thus produced is referred to as a shoulder in just the same way of the shoulder surrounding a tenon in joinery.

There is a good reason why bullet should continue to describe the projectile.

If for any reason you really couldn't bring yourself to use "bullet" then it would be less confusing if a word other than "head" be used. For instance, given the fact that @ejg wants to ignore the engineering terms and anthropomorphise the cartridge then something that sticks out of a mouth like "tongue" or goes into a mouth like "bite" or "bolus" would be more logical...bolus would actually be quite elegant with its bullet, boullette, boulle similarity.

What I find strange is the arguing for the perceived advantage of temporarily changing the bullet manufacturer's own description of bullet to "head" by the retailer and purchaser...but then reverting to bullet to describe the holes made in the target.

Alan
Seems it's a choice between plain bloody minded or just plain thick.
 
Apparently according to Wilpedia it was christened "30 Gov't 06" by Its makers "Winchester" . So Like my given name "Stephen" with a "Ph" not a "V" it got shortened to Steve. My Wife and mother in Law still call me Stephen when I'm in trouble.
Steve.
if your quoting, why did you miss out "pronounced "thirty-ought-six"
 
More interesting would be to know why people get out of their prams to defend their right to call a bullet a "head".

The etymological derivation, and usage of "bullet" by all the actual bullet manufacturers (yes, even Sako with their hammerhead bullets) is never countered by an equally logical explanation of any advantage of renaming them heads. Let alone "bullet heads".

The nearest to an explanation/justification is the anthropomorphising of the cartridge parts that @ejg always proposes in these discussions...body, shoulder, neck, head. But then he always ignores the fact that the cartridge case neck ends with the case mouth...his "head" is now being seated in the "mouth"...if the bullet just perched on the end of the case neck, maybe there would be a justification...but it doesn't.

He also ignores pistol and 22LR straight wall cartridges which have no shoulders or necks in this anthropomorphic justification.

But as an engineer I am surprised that he doesn't appear to acknowledge or accept that the manufacturers of cartridge cases, named the case's parts after the processes of manufacture.

So the stamping press produces the basic cup or slug.The drawing press produces the tube. The primer end is then headed up. Formed in the same way that a rivet or a bolt is headed up by pressure on the end whether rimmed or rimless. The primer pocket and head markings are then stamped in.

This gives rise to the gunsmith's term "headspace". It is important everybody knows what is meant by that...there have been a number of occasions on here when newby reloaders have confused headspace with the jump to the lands dimension.

The case tube is necked down in a swage or necking die and the step down/transition thus produced is referred to as a shoulder in just the same way of the shoulder surrounding a tenon in joinery.

There is a good reason why bullet should continue to describe the projectile.

If for any reason you really couldn't bring yourself to use "bullet" then it would be less confusing if a word other than "head" be used. For instance, given the fact that @ejg wants to ignore the engineering terms and anthropomorphise the cartridge then something that sticks out of a mouth like "tongue" or goes into a mouth like "bite" or "bolus" would be more logical...bolus would actually be quite elegant with its bullet, boullette, boulle similarity.

What I find strange is the arguing for the perceived advantage of temporarily changing the bullet manufacturer's own description of bullet to "head" by the retailer and purchaser...but then reverting to bullet to describe the holes made in the target.

Alan
Agreed and If I ask for bullets anywhere in the world, in our tongue or theirs I will get bullets. If I ask for heads I will get a blank expression.
 
I keep seeing a lot of journalists describing just about anything green and with tracks as a “tank”.
I don’t know why people using incorrect terminology is so annoying, but it really is!
 
Seems it's a choice between plain bloody minded or just plain thick.
Or those that never want to fix a mistake . It is normal that non experts will use more natural wording that makes more sense to them. The experts can call the ar se of a cartridge a head.
Yes bullet is the right term instead of head but a large portion of people use the term wrongly as the complete cartridge which confuses.
I can live with either term now that it is established anyway.
edi
 
To go to a base level if you asked a young lady for a bullet she would have no idea what you want or you'd end up in hospital. On the other hand if you asked for head there would be a different outcome perhaps.😅
And with a name like yours you clearly speak with some experience!
🦊🦊
 
Or those that never want to fix a mistake . It is normal that non experts will use more natural wording that makes more sense to them.
Quite - but it isn't normal for them to persist in that error once it has been explained to them how and why they are wrong.

As an aside: 'experts'? You'd think folk who knew enough about firearms to be allowed to own and use them would make a point of using the right words to describe them, their ammunition and the commonly-referred-to components of both. Not exactly 'expertise', I'd have thought?

If you can live with both, why not just stick with using the correct one and show a good example to the less-well-informed?
 
i think it comes from a lack of education and a lack of tollerence, i definatly lack tolerence but try to learn when its pointed out im wrong. i cant understand people that know its not correct and carry on any way. calibre is my bug bare no one has mentioned yet
 
Or those that never want to fix a mistake
But it never was a mistake.

The case is "headed up" / "upset" to produce the head just like a rivet or bolt...no mistake at all. What else should we call the head of a rivet?

The mistake is to see a box of bullets on the counter with no body, shoulder or neck in close proximity and insist on referring to them as heads.

It is only by ignoring the accurate production process naming of the case parts, and looking at a complete bottleneck centre rifle cartridge does your anthropomorphising argument have any justification...but how about straight walled case pistol bullets? Where are the shoulders and neck there?

Alan
 
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Don't even get me started on these!

Why people have to call them "nice" biscuits when it's clearly pronounced "nice " biscuits I'll never know.
wrong....

per google...

Why are nice biscuits called nice?

Originated c. 1860 simply named because of their "nice" taste. This was apparently changed when Queen Victoria visited Nice in France and took these, her favourite biscuits with her.


....now you do know!
 
But it never was a mistake.

The case is "headed up" / "upset" to produce the head just like a rivet or bolt...no mistake at all. What else should we call the head of a rivet?

The mistake is to see a box of bullets on the counter with no body, shoulder or neck in close proximity and insist on referring to them as heads.

It is only by ignoring the accurate production process naming of the case parts, and looking at a complete bottleneck centre rifle cartridge does your anthropomorphising argument have any justification...but how about straight walled case pistol bullets? Where are the shoulders and neck there?

Alan
'Close proximity' tut tut.
 
'Close proximity' tut tut.
Oops! yes thank you for pointing that out. Made me look it up....It is debatable whether "close" is redundant, arguably there are degrees of proximity as there are of separation...in this instance I was trying to get over the point that for a head to be even 'slightly' parted from the neck the result is terminal! :)

But as a matter of interest I put it in for emphasis, then edited it out it, and then decided the sentence scanned better with it in....but I should remember that adjectives usually weaken....


Alan
 
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