Caledonian Sleeper

BRACES of Bristol - Sauer 100 XTA Stainless Package
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muddy42

Well-Known Member
I am sure someone has mentioned this already, but I just wanted to alert people to the requirement to notify the new Caledonian Sleeper if you will carry firearms at least 48 hours in advance. I didn't know this and the junior person who was in charge of our carriage last week was determined not to let us board. This caused us a nervous 15 minutes before the train left. Luckily we managed to board the train after my friend did some sweet-talking to the duty manager.

For the return journey, I called them and received the following letter. Otherwise the sleeper was an incredibly efficient way to get to Scotland and we had a fantastic two days at the hinds.



Dear Mr X
Booking reference number: CSWXXXXX

Further to your conversation with the Caledonian Sleeper Guest Service Centre, I am pleased to confirm that you are authorised to carry your sporting firearm on board Caledonian Sleeper. However, please be aware that ammunition is not permitted. The following terms and conditions apply in-line with Caledonian Sleepers Sporting Firearms
Policy;
  • The room must only be occupied by yourself or a member of your party.
  • Sporting firearms must not be left unattended at any time during the journey.
  • An up to date sporting firearm certificate must be carried.
  • Ammunition is not permitted on-board.
In the event of a disruption Caledonian Sleeper will not be able to offer road replacement for Guests carrying firearms. If travelling with another rail provider then their items and
conditions must be met. Caledonian Sleeper will not be responsible for boarding being denied and no refunds or compensation will be made. This letter must be shown to the Caledonian Sleeper host when boarding the train. It can be shown on the hand held device or printed. Failure to adhere to the above terms and conditions will result in boarding being denied.
 
No ammunition? How will they police that then? And what if your preferred loads are custom handloads?

Bloody apologetic bureaucrats :mad:
 
Well done for posting that.

Woodsmoke - instead of getting angry, there are two options, 1) take ammo with you as I don’t know of an instance where bags have been searched at any point in a journey or 2) write to the company explaining the situation whereby their actions prevent more usage of their service and going into detail how they can mitigate the risk if they were to allow ammunition on board.
For example safes in part of the train where two keys are required. You have one and a member of staff has the other but you need both to open the safe. It doesn’t need to be big for ammo - it’s not as if you’d be transporting more than a couple of hundred rounds for a week’s stalking

I think Scotrail don’t allow firearms but maybe with a bit of persuasion they could be cajoled into changing their minds.
I used the Sleeper quite frequently when attending meetings down south and really enjoyed the experience.
 
LuckyEddie said:
Woodsmoke - instead of getting angry, there are two options, 1) take ammo with you as I don’t know of an instance where bags have been searched at any point in a journey
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure I'd want to risk incurring the wrath of the British Transport Police, to be honest. I reckon you could wave your FAC off if caught?
 
As stated the train companies don't have the right to search luggage or ask you to open your gun case but as stated they could get British Transport Police involved or refuse travel. We did have ammo separately in our bags, but wasn't going to mention this.

Its just another example of law abiding people being treated like criminals. But I'd suggest just going along with their bureaucracy and the written permission. If this post manages to avoid at least one cancelled stalking trip that will be a bonus.
 
TH4 said:
Why would you lose your fac you have legal authority to possess ammo. It is just a rule made by the train company it is not a criminal offense. The worst they can do is refuse travel.
Click to expand...

Think about it? You decide to directly contravene published travel requirements by carrying a prohibited item on to a public transport system, and you think they'll just refuse travel if you're caught? You obviously haven't had many dealings with BTP. I sure as hell wouldn't be testing your theory :-|
 
No ammo? What are you supposed to use? Bad language? :rolleyes:

And then theres the fact that you might not have time to get to an RFD to buy ammo in Scotland AND the issue that even if you can get to an RFD they might not have the ammo your rifle shoots.

As per CarlW - I'd complain.

And I also agree with TH4 - I cant see how travelling with your gun and ammo to go on a shooting trip is a criminal offence. You have good reason to have the gun and you have good reason to have the ammo, and the legal authority to possess both. Its a stupid rule made up by numpties in head office and I cant see how they can do much more than refuse travel.

EG - If you were to take your rifle and some ammo on another train somewhere if you didnt drive you also wouldnt be breaking the law. I know people who've taken a shotgun and ammo on the tube and another guy who took a rifle and ammo across London to go stalking. No issues in either case.
 
Woodsmoke said:
Think about it? You decide to directly contravene published travel requirements by carrying a prohibited item on to a public transport system, and you think they'll just refuse travel if you're caught? You obviously haven't had many dealings with BTP. I sure as hell wouldn't be testing your theory :-|
Click to expand...
I sure as hell wouldn't like to spend my life scared of the bogey man like you. It is not a prohibited item in law. It is only prohibited by the train company, they do not make the law. There is no offence committed.
 
Pine Marten said:
Shhhh. Discretion is key to this working, don't tell anyone!
Click to expand...

"Whats in the bag sir?"

"Que? No hablas Ingles..."

:)

I totally agree - the folks who said they'd done this had broken the guns down so they fitted in a non descript bag. I dont think I'd want to do this with what was obviously a gun slip or rifle case, but that said when I was at LGW with a my gun in a travel case I thought everyone nearby would OBVIOUSLY know what was in there. It felt like the damn thing was bending space/time around it like the One Ring haha!

The surprised looks I got when I opened the case for inspection demonstrated that in actual fact everyone was entirely clueless as to what was in there and only realised when I opened the thing up.

So make of that what you will.
 
Not being allowed to carry ammunition is a bit of a problem...
Click to expand...

Well are you not allowed in law to send yourself at the place where you'll be shooting your own ammunition by suitable carrier? But for sure it's a PITA as unless it's a shotgun even the user of factory ammunition may or may not find that particular load on the shelves of any local gunshop.
 
stubear said:
"Whats in the bag sir?"

"Que? No hablas Ingles..."

:)

I totally agree - the folks who said they'd done this had broken the guns down so they fitted in a non descript bag. I dont think I'd want to do this with what was obviously a gun slip or rifle case, but that said when I was at LGW with a my gun in a travel case I thought everyone nearby would OBVIOUSLY know what was in there. It felt like the damn thing was bending space/time around it like the One Ring haha!

The surprised looks I got when I opened the case for inspection demonstrated that in actual fact everyone was entirely clueless as to what was in there and only realised when I opened the thing up.

So make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

I've been asked that one single time, and I answered "It's my gear". That was it. As you say, it's all about discretion, and also, people don't see what they don't expect to see. Hence the fact that you can carry a neatly packaged broken down gun in a rucksack and a deer in a Waitrose cool bag with Christmas scenes on it.
 
It is only prohibited by the train company, they do not make the law. There is no offence committed.
Click to expand...

Erm? If it is a byelaw then just as travelling without a ticket it is an offence. Or consuming alcohol on the Underground in the Metropolis.

Best to check. See section 2 in the link below.

Note that breach of a byelaw is, I believe, an arrestable offence AND triable at Magistrates' Court.

 
Last edited:
It would be interesting, from an academic perspective, to consider whether taking a firearm onto someone's property (Serco's trains or Network Rail's rail corridors), against their explicit instruction, would constitute armed trespass? Or, are those places sufficiently public that the offence would be too difficult to establish?

Anyone any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Carl
 
TH4 said:
I sure as hell wouldn't like to spend my life scared of the bogey man like you
Click to expand...

Suit yourself. As far as I'm concerned you'd be falling foul of the railways terms of carriage, which is an offence in itself.

Just being a gobshite doesn't automatically mean you're correct.
 
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