Caliber increase, change shot placement or both?
- Thread starter Gboz
- Start date
One Creedmoor to cull them all, One Thermal to find them, One Honda to bring them home, and in the darkness bind them.
K
K
One of those debates with no definitive answer really. Pros and cons to most placements. Biggest target with high probability of a drop is into the shoulder, maybe. We are shooting at an animal with complex anatomy so the results can be surprising/disappointing at times. No guarantees
That’s prob about what I’m getting.You must have very slow deer3-4 seconds full tilt for some of the fallow I have shot is closer to 50-60
If they come up against a fence, they generally fall over it and can’t get up.
When they get to the woods (I suspect) they stumble over the fence or in the bramble and fall over fairly quickly.
I guess I also draw no pleasure from shooting one, to see it run (for what feels like an age) and wonder if I should have left it alone
I spent so long shooting foxes before I got into shooting deer that I am so used to seeing things drop on the spot so when they dont the first though is "was that a bad shot" ..and often that isnt true with deer. Most Roe I have shot either drop on the spot or run 5-10m. I have shot fallow who have managed 50m with a bust front shoulder and an exploded heart...staggering how tough they can be. Since I have moved to copper I am trying to pin them through the front shoulders but sometimes, if I dont "think" I go behind the shoulder...but again this has resulted in bang flops as well as 20m runners.That’s prob about what I’m getting.
If they come up against a fence, they generally fall over it and can’t get up.
When they get to the woods (I suspect) they stumble over the fence or in the bramble and fall over fairly quickly.
I guess I also draw no pleasure from shooting one, to see it run (for what feels like an age) and wonder if I should have left it alone
Mainly 100-200yrds as the meadows aren’t massive.
It sounds like a slight adjustment of bullet strike is the way forward.
I’m sure to increase the strike energy and size of wound channel will give a greater margin for error with this too?
Clearly bullet placement is paramount, no question, but stepping up from 6mm 100grn doing 1800ft/lb to a 7mm 140grn with 2700 ft/lb will give more of the shock required to short-circuit the central nervous system??
Looking into the Hilar shot, it seems that it’s not a large target (and they don’t come with bullseyes on their flanks to guide you) so a deviation will strike lungs and other surrounding organs (which means it’s a much safer shot that others) and maybe that’s where a larger caliber will pay dividends?
@Gboz bullet energy is not a great yardstick for performance on deer. Impact velocity is more important. Higher impact velocity will certainly help, as long as the bullet still has enough mass and is sturdy enough for sufficient penetration.
Something around 80gr, maybe a bit more fragile and at at a higher velocity should give better results on average size fallow I'd think.
I think 75-87gr is optimum for a 1:10 twist 243.
Something around 80gr, maybe a bit more fragile and at at a higher velocity should give better results on average size fallow I'd think.
I think 75-87gr is optimum for a 1:10 twist 243.
Rutland lad
Well-Known Member
The one thing that runs alongside your original post is this -
In my experience with .243 I used to get lots of bruising/snotting up of the meat around the entry wound.
Once I went to a larger calibres this mostly disappeared - some would say that was due to the .243 being light and fast,
heavy/heavier and not quite so fast definitely causes less meat damage IMHO.
Others will have their own point of view I’m sure, but I don’t miss the .243 in my cabinet.
In my experience with .243 I used to get lots of bruising/snotting up of the meat around the entry wound.
Once I went to a larger calibres this mostly disappeared - some would say that was due to the .243 being light and fast,
heavy/heavier and not quite so fast definitely causes less meat damage IMHO.
Others will have their own point of view I’m sure, but I don’t miss the .243 in my cabinet.
A bigger calibre is likely to help reduce runners in my experience. If you increase frontal area and velocity you will get more deer folding and dropping on the spot, particularly if you choose your bullet carefully and bring your point of aim to the top of the heart region as per the photo below. Starting with a .308 is a good start, .30-06 is better and the .300 Magnums almost eliminate runners with decent shot placement. Obviously meat damage can increase accordingly but can be mitigated by bullet selection. It all depends on your tolerance to runners and meat damage.
Attachments
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Heart Lung shots will give runners pretty much regardless of calibre.
If you want quick drop the HIlAR shot through the front of the shoulder impacts the central nervous system rendering the animal senseless immediately.
You will get a few dropping with heart / lung. Generally on slightly higher shots and where you hit a rib and shock wave transmitted up to the spine, or temporary cavity impacts the spine.
If you want quick drop the HIlAR shot through the front of the shoulder impacts the central nervous system rendering the animal senseless immediately.
You will get a few dropping with heart / lung. Generally on slightly higher shots and where you hit a rib and shock wave transmitted up to the spine, or temporary cavity impacts the spine.
Darkwoodecho
Well-Known Member
If one of your main concerns is deer recovery over the boundary have you considered approaching your neighbour and getting a recovery agreement, ie permission to enter and recover dead deer? I have a couple of areas where I shoot close to neighbouring land and have permission to enter and recover, it's usually an "ok, just give me a call when you need to" arrangement. I've also had a " well come over here and shoot them" response which has expanded my permissions! Worth a try with the right approach
Rutland lad
Well-Known Member
My experience in Scotland with the .300 WM is exactly as you describe. If I do my bit properly of course.
... up the front end though 
Yep, nothing gets around crap shot placement…. Gut shot beasts will run for sure but if anyone wants a tool to minimize the run distance then a .300 Magnum does that very well.
Had a roe doe run 50 yards or more after being hit with well north of 3000 ft-lb impact energy from my 300 PRC. No heart, lung hanging out of the exit, piled up on the boundary.
Shot a 52 kg larder weight fallow buck Friday with my .280, took the top of its heart off and damage to both lungs, it ran with the group (my mate shouted you missed!) soon fell over.
The runs I get with my larger, more powerful calibres don’t really stand out as any different to my 25-45 which is a necked up .223 and similar power to your .243. That said if out for fallow I take the .280.
You can change calibre, it won’t stop them running. Shot placement is the only thing that will, I tend to go for heart lung as deer often shot at 200-300 yards and I don’t like damaging the shoulders, they are running dead in their feet.
100 yards, if you and your kit are up to it then head ahooting will drop them on the spot. 200 yards, Hilar will give you a better chance.
Last edited:
Similar threads
