Canada Geese 22lr.

[Smellydog]

Years ago I shot a rabbit at a shallow angle at close range with a 22. The bullet skipped off the turf and struck a metal pheasant feeder only thirty yards away.
It only put a small dent in the steel.
I returned on purpose with a sub 12 air rifle in 22 and shot it again with a 16gn pellet.
The result was similar dent!

I don't over think 22 ricochet anymore. A screaming bullet is yielding it's energy fast. The clue is the noise energy itself!

 

[Bowland blades]

That's one thing I have always wondered "Where did all those ricochets go" in my younger and more care free days we shot 50 or so rabbits every Friday night on the farm where I worked . Over the years we moved off shotguns and air rifles to .22 rf then on to .17 HMR , not that we ever shot unsafe but ricochets were quite common with the sub sonic 22 rf and that's what stopped their use. In well over 1000 rounds I think I have only heard 3 ricochets with the .17 HMR but it put pay to the Rabbit numbers in the end and now we stalk them like Deer or limit night shooting to air rifles unless they cause crop damage . You can't believe how the numbers dropped over the years and now you are lucky to see 20 or so over the 800 acres !! and now we go out once every couple of months !! Lets hope Deer don't go the same way but that's another story .

you wont hear a ricochet unless the report of the firearm is very low ( ie a moderated subsonic) . ITS NOT THEY JUST DONT HAPPEN - THEY DO! " mostly greater than the speed of sound " ie no Wizzz noise !
Generally you find out you have a supersonic ricochet when 1. It hits something you really didn't want to hit 2. you see a rooster tail of wet dew rise up from a grassy field .
Kinetic energy dictates ricochet potential the more the energy the greater the potential for destruction. Not the noise of a mangled lump of lead that is likely a lot less than its 1050 fps start velocity ( due to what was 1. lost in flight 2. transferred to the hard object it came off ).
Dont mean to push this down peoples throats but this needs to be common knowledge , the higher the energy the greater the risk

I never Had an audible 17 hmr ricochet but they certainly occured via direct evidence , Never had an audible one from any of my CF rifles but i have seen one raise dew off a field ( after passing through a deer and comming off a banking ) 140 grain gameking . Not a sound ! I bet all experienced shooters would have called the shot safe but it plainly didnt end up that way , why i say " good backstop and clear backdrop behind "

An FEO said hmr dont ricochet so i suggested i could produce one in a safe area if she wanted me to right there and then within a few shots but it would most likely be inaudible

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Bowland Blades- I'm unable to quote for some reason but- just so I understand what youre saying-



Are you saying that a faster bullet is more likely to richochet ? (all other factors being the same)



Or that the consequences of a faster bullet richocheting arerangemore dangerous and scary- with the range and damage potential being far higher ?



From what I have understood- the issue with the 22lr is the bullet is a solid lump of lead, isn't going fast enough to break up much on impact, and is v prone to richochet as a result- with a large percentage of weight being retained on richochet.

Your hmr example being such a destructive explosive bullet- the richochet example youre able to create- are they actual richochet? Or are these bullet fragments richochet ?

 

[Morkai]

you wont hear a ricochet unless the report of the firearm is very low ( ie a moderated subsonic) . ITS NOT THEY JUST DONT HAPPEN - THEY DO! " mostly greater than the speed of sound " ie no Wizzz noise !
Generally you find out you have a supersonic ricochet when 1. It hits something you really didn't want to hit 2. you see a rooster tail of wet dew rise up from a grassy field .
Kinetic energy dictates ricochet potential the more the energy the greater the potential for destruction. Not the noise of a mangled lump of lead that is likely a lot less than its 1050 fps start velocity ( due to what was 1. lost in flight 2. transferred to the hard object it came off ).
Dont mean to push this down peoples throats but this needs to be common knowledge , the higher the energy the greater the risk

I never Had an audible 17 hmr ricochet but they certainly occured via direct evidence , Never had an audible one from any of my CF rifles but i have seen one raise dew off a field ( after passing through a deer and comming off a banking ) 140 grain gameking . Not a sound ! I bet all experienced shooters would have called the shot safe but it plainly didnt end up that way , why i say " good backstop and clear backdrop behind "

An FEO said hmr dont ricochet so i suggested i could produce one in a safe area if she wanted me to right there and then within a few shots but it would most likely be inaudible

Ive had my 6.5CM give an audible richochet when it had no mod on it.

I definitely heard it as I sh#t myself thinking about where it went.

 

[Bowland blades]

Ive had my 6.5CM give an audible richochet when it had no mod on it.

I definitely heard it as I sh#t myself thinking about where it went.

yeah it came off at 1050 FPS or less thats all

 

[Morkai]

yeah it came off at 1050 FPS or less thats all

I dont think it has anything to do with low fps, more that the bullet is tumbling.

 

[Bowland blades]

Bowland Blades- I'm unable to quote for some reason but- just so I understand what youre saying-





Are you saying that a faster bullet is more likely to richochet ? (all other factors being the same)

Or that the consequences of a faster bullet richocheting arerangemore dangerous and scary- with the range and damage potential being far higher ?

Its all about kinetic energy not bullet weight , well theres a bit around hardness of the bullet and what it hits but ...... Its energy . In a way speed has a connection as does bullet deformation but until we get into the connection its still energy

 

[Bowland blades]

I dont think it has anything to do with low fps, more that the bullet is tumbling.

you cannot hear the passing of a supersonic bullet going away from you as it needs to be reflected off something . Shooting along a post fence sometimes you can hear a number of bangs , along a dry stone wall with a supersonic round even with moderators is quite bad on the ears for it has multiple sonic cracks blended from many reflections . A sub sonic round is chosen for the very reason its quiet

 

[Morkai]

you cannot hear the passing of a supersonic bullet going away from you as it needs to be reflected off something .

Well, not exactly true. You cant hear an approaching supersonic object for obvious reasons but you will hear a supersonic object once it has passed you and the sound waves make it to you. Reflecting doesnt really come into it as the object is vibrating and emitting sound.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Its all about kinetic energy not bullet weight , well theres a bit around hardness of the bullet and what it hits but ...... Its energy . In a way speed has a connection as does bullet deformation but until we get into the connection its still energy

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I'm confused- how can it be about "kinetic energy not weight with speed having a connection

Kinetic energy is a function of speed and weight (or strictly speaking mass....).

Speed is far more important I understand- the velocity is squared so kinetic energy, K


k = [(0.5*M) *V²]


But please explain- are you saying that the velocity is the main contributing factor to a bullet richocheting ?

Or the main factor to destructive/killing factor should the richochet hit someone god forbid?


Genuinely interested I just hope my A level physics/hobby level can keep up!

 

[Smellydog]

I'm confused- how can it be about "kinetic energy not weight with speed having a connection

Kinetic energy is a function of speed and weight (or strictly speaking mass....).

Speed is far more important I understand- the velocity is squared so kinetic energy, K


k = [(0.5*M) *V²]


But please explain- are you saying that the velocity is the main contributing factor to a bullet richocheting ?

Or the main factor to destructive/killing factor should the richochet hit someone god forbid?


Genuinely interested I just hope my A level physics/hobby level can keep up!

Good luck.

 

[Overlay]

did he shoot the geese

 

[Smellydog]

As it is possible to hear super sonic aircraft once they have passed it will also be possible to hear a super sonic bullet leaving the shooter, and I have, often.

 

[Longstrider]

Anything travelling towards you at more than Mach1 will be inaudible as it will 'out-run' its own sound. Anything going away from you can be heard no matter its speed as the sound will travel to you in the normal way. That's why foxes don't have a chance to flinch or duck when you shoot them with a supersonic bullet. The bullet gets there before the bang.

As I understand it, .22 rimfire subsonics are more likely to ricochet than most others because they are plain, solid lead travelling at slow enough speed to not fragment much on impact. Remaining as a distorted lump of lead they can easily sail off into the distance whining like a spoiled child. They usually don't go anywhere near as far as you might expect, but it's till a worry as to where they'll end up when it happens. Faster, jacketed bullets tend to fragment on impact and usually ricochet less.

 

[Bowland blades]

I'm confused- how can it be about "kinetic energy not weight with speed having a connection

Kinetic energy is a function of speed and weight (or strictly speaking mass....).

Speed is far more important I understand- the velocity is squared so kinetic energy, K


k = [(0.5*M) *V²]


But please explain- are you saying that the velocity is the main contributing factor to a bullet richocheting ?

Or the main factor to destructive/killing factor should the richochet hit someone god forbid?


Genuinely interested I just hope my A level physics/hobby level can keep up

I'm confused- how can it be about "kinetic energy not weight with speed having a connection

Kinetic energy is a function of speed and weight (or strictly speaking mass....).

Speed is far more important I understand- the velocity is squared so kinetic energy, K


k = [(0.5*M) *V²]


But please explain- are you saying that the velocity is the main contributing factor to a bullet richocheting ?

Or the main factor to destructive/killing factor should the richochet hit someone god forbid?


Genuinely interested I just hope my A level physics/hobby level can keep up!

just read what is there not what isnt

 

[Bowland blades]

Anything travelling towards you at more than Mach1 will be inaudible as it will 'out-run' its own sound. Anything going away from you can be heard no matter its speed as the sound will travel to you in the normal way. That's why foxes don't have a chance to flinch or duck when you shoot them with a supersonic bullet. The bullet gets there before the bang.

As I understand it, .22 rimfire subsonics are more likely to ricochet than most others because they are plain, solid lead travelling at slow enough speed to not fragment much on impact. Remaining as a distorted lump of lead they can easily sail off into the distance whining like a spoiled child. They usually don't go anywhere near as far as you might expect, but it's till a worry as to where they'll end up when it happens. Faster, jacketed bullets tend to fragment on impact and usually ricochet less.

But .22 rf are not more likely ! its just you hear them when it happens because its a mangled lump of lead well under the speed of sound . 50 BMG will ricochet , 243 win will , 308 will etc etc but it would be incredibly rare for it to do so under the speed of sound and within ear shot of the firing point . Besides it would effectively be masked by the gunshot even moderated

 

[Morkai]

But .22 rf are not more likely ! its just you hear them when it happens because its a mangled lump of lead well under the speed of sound . 50 BMG will ricochet , 243 win will , 308 will etc etc but it would be incredibly rare for it to do so under the speed of sound and within ear shot of the firing point . Besides it would effectively be masked by the gunshot even moderated

Why do you think you can only hear subsonic objects?

A bullet travelling subsonic isnt what makes the richochet sound.

 

[Morkai]

To the OP.

Head shoot them with your 22lr under the GL as a pest.

 

[Bowland blades]

Why do you think you can only hear subsonic objects?

Being subsonic isnt what makes the richochet sound.

because they arrive at the target after the muzzle blast has gone . You have plainly never knowingly had a ricochet with a supersonic round but if you have shot a reasonable amount you have definitely had ricochets occur . think the ""tink" of a 22 lr hitting steel has quite a delay to get back to you ...
Not going any further with this