Certificate fees: a fair price for a fair service. BASC statement.

[1066kieran]

There are far to many people on this forum who seem to think it is their god given right to expect everything for nothing with no questions asked and to be honest with some of the opinions I have read in posts recently, I am actually surprised that some members of this forum are trusted with firearms such is their bitterness and rabid opinion on a variety of subjects. £94 over five years works out about five pence a day, if you consider that's too painful an amount to pay to enjoy your hobby, get a new one.

As has been explained elsewhere its already paid for by. Our taxes.
Good for you that your shooting only costs you 5p a day I like many others have additonal costs including the purchase of a gun etc. For our certificate fees we get NOTHING! That is scandalous and for somany shooters to be happy for the price to go up is beyond comprehension. Brilliant tlets double the cost of a certificate every time a union gets a bee in its bonnet before you know it £400 for a renew. It really is the thin end of the wedge.

 

[Labrat]

If all we're being asked for is a hike to £94 for the five year certificate, fair enough, reasonable if we get the service improvements.

but what I saw the police originally asking for was fees for one-for-ones and a hike in everything else as well.

I personally can't see how a renewal can cost the police the same as a first issue, so perhaps something more appropriate should be seen there as well?

 

[david1976]

As has been explained elsewhere its already paid for by. Our taxes.
Good for you that your shooting only costs you 5p a day I like many others have additonal costs including the purchase of a gun etc. For our certificate fees we get NOTHING! That is scandalous and for somany shooters to be happy for the price to go up is beyond comprehension. Brilliant tlets double the cost of a certificate every time a union gets a bee in its bonnet before you know it £400 for a renew. It really is the thin end of the wedge.

You don't get nothing at all, you get to hold a firearm / shotgun, that is what you are paying for and that is what costs 5p a day.

I don't particularly like paying council tax or road tax etc but you have to in order to have a house or a car, similarly you have to have a license to own a gun.

As I say if you don't like it, get a new hobby and stop whining about having to actually pay for something.

 

[timbrayford]

You don't get nothing at all, you get to hold a firearm / shotgun, that is what you are paying for and that is what costs 5p a day.

I don't particularly like paying council tax or road tax etc but you have to in order to have a house or a car, similarly you have to have a license to own a gun.

As I say if you don't like it, get a new hobby and stop whining about having to actually pay for something.

With Council and Road tax you at least get something back in return, no state funded firearms, ammunition or shooting opportunities are provided in return for FAC & SGC fees. IMO it is not the actual fee that is necessarily contentious but the ethos behind it, i.e. the cost of preventing armed crime falling on the law abiding shooter. atb Tim

 

[finnbear270]

You don't get nothing at all, you get to hold a firearm / shotgun, that is what you are paying for and that is what costs 5p a day.

I don't particularly like paying council tax or road tax etc but you have to in order to have a house or a car, similarly you have to have a license to own a gun.

As I say if you don't like it, get a new hobby and stop whining about having to actually pay for something.

See sale of goods thread matey!
Breach of Sales of Goods act (so possibly in the wrong section).....

Started by Eyefor, Today 09:53 Where can WE complain to about the poor service???

 

[Virbius]

With Council and Road tax you at least get something back in return, no state funded firearms, ammunition or shooting opportunities are provided in return for FAC & SGC fees. IMO it is not the actual fee that is necessarily contentious but the ethos behind it, i.e. the cost of preventing armed crime falling on the law abiding shooter. atb Tim

With road tax what you get is the authority and approval to use the public highways in your vehicle. Pedestrians, cyclists, historic vehicles and horse riders, get this without payment. It is also obviously a legal requirement that you need a licence, your vehicle has to be insured and if over or under a certain age your equipment needs a test of competence - i.e. an MOT.
So, with an FAC or SGC we get authority and approval to use land on which we have permission, and without needing compulsory insurance or equipment test.
Well, well, well we actually get a much better deal than motorists!

 

[Greymaster]

And we get to pay twice over for it, through taxes and stealth taxes (FAC fee).

By all means have a licensing system, but why pay twice for it?

 

[david1976]

And we get to pay twice over for it, through taxes and stealth taxes (FAC fee).

By all means have a licensing system, but why pay twice for it?

Where in the tax legislation does it state that tax payers money is used to pay for FAC to prove we pay for it twice?

 

[CWMMAN3738]

On your council tax statement it states an amount to fund the police, or don't you pay council tax? Perhaps you get CTB do you so don't care or know?
Greymaster, timbrayford & others have a valid. Point we already fund the police in full and some through taxes to provide a complet public service, if it was passed to another authority not publicly fundd then paying for a service may then be acceptable.
I personally don't mind paying but want at least a quality service if I'm paying extra for it. I wouldn't go to the Savoy & expect to be served my fish & chips in newspaper on a paper plate would you?!!!!

Where in the tax legislation does it state that tax payers money is used to pay for FAC to prove we pay for it twice?

 

[1066kieran]

You don't get nothing at all, you get to hold a firearm / shotgun, that is what you are paying for and that is what costs 5p a day.

I don't particularly like paying council tax or road tax etc but you have to in order to have a house or a car, similarly you have to have a license to own a gun.

As I say if you don't like it, get a new hobby and stop whining about having to actually pay for something.

You do not need a tax disc to own a car,however low and behold if you do have one and choose to use it the tax disc has paid for a road network and its maintenance.
Neither do you need to pay council tax to own a house once again though if you do pay council tax the money is used by your council to benefit society as a whole.
However for a SGC or FAC that has already been paid for by taxes collected and then paid to the Police for the Police to carry out their Duty of care to society all you get is a small piece of paper and nothing else.
Ps i'm not whining i'm presenting facts that some people appear unable to grasp themselves and when they are told to do something follow instructions like lemmings and clearly like paying for things twice and are happy to be ripped off.

 

[stag1933]

You do not need a tax disc to own a car,however low and behold if you do have one and choose to use it the tax disc has paid for a road network and its maintenance.
Neither do you need to pay council tax to own a house once again though if you do pay council tax the money is used by your council to benefit society as a whole.
However for a SGC or FAC that has already been paid for by taxes collected and then paid to the Police for the Police to carry out their Duty of care to society all you get is a small piece of paper and nothing else.
Ps i'm not whining i'm presenting facts that some people appear unable to grasp themselves and when they are told to do something follow instructions like lemmings and clearly like paying for things twice and are happy to be ripped off.

You do have to pay Council Tax if you own a house and live in it.
IT is an unfair tax as the charge is relative to its rateable value and not the number of persons residing there in excess of one individual.
I get a 25% reduction as a one person household but in an identical dwelling next door to me there are 4 residents.
Each individuals share therefore is 25% yet mine is 75%.
More human waste for disposal etc. by them. Part of this tax funds our local Police, again an unfair proportion being foised upon ME as a single dweller.
FAC renewal fees are similar, the one gun owner pays the same rate as another with 4 or 5 weapons or in some cases many more.

HWH.

 

[1066kieran]

You do have to pay Council Tax if you own a house and live in it.
IT is an unfair tax as the charge is relative to its rateable value and not the number of persons residing there in excess of one individual.
I get a 25% reduction as a one person household but in an identical dwelling next door to me there are 4 residents.
Each individuals share therefore is 25% yet mine is 75%.
More human waste for disposal etc. by them. Part of this tax funds our local Police, again an unfair proportion being foised upon ME as a single dweller.
FAC renewal fees are similar, the one gun owner pays the same rate as another with 4 or 5 weapons or in some cases many more.

HWH.

Exactly to dwell in it but you can own one and not have to pay.. Even to own a gun less a curio or antique you need a certificate. Yes council tax is unfair. Introduced by Henry the eighth to fund a war that to the best of my knowledge is over.

 

[Hillhunter]

we pay € 80.00 per gun for a 3 year license here in Ireland , but if you have 5 guns you pay 5 x 80, a little bit different to your set up.

 

[finnbear270]

we pay € 80.00 per gun for a 3 year license here in Ireland , but if you have 5 guns you pay 5 x 80, a little bit different to your set up.

Hilly, How would you score the service you get?, Steve.

 

[8x57]

we pay € 80.00 per gun for a 3 year license here in Ireland , but if you have 5 guns you pay 5 x 80, a little bit different to your set up.

With respect to a different country and different laws I would say that is taxation not licensing.

 

[Hillhunter]

our service is crap, it depends who you meet on the day, i looked for a new license for a third firearm this year and it took 11 weeks to get it, but that is only our area, other area's are 2/3 weeks, problem is who you are applying to don't know the difference between calibres

 

[Hillhunter]

forgot to add that if you are changing your rifle for even the same calibre you still have to do a full application , not like it was before where the police man at the station could do the transfer there and then.

 

[finnbear270]

our service is crap, it depends who you meet on the day, i looked for a new license for a third firearm this year and it took 11 weeks to get it, but that is only our area, other area's are 2/3 weeks, problem is who you are applying to don't know the difference between calibres

Pretty similar to some counties over here then!

 

[Wireless]

I sent the following redacted communication to the West Mercia PCC

Hi, As a holder of both a Firearms Certificate, and Shotgun Certificate, I note the PCCs recent comments regarding the budget of West Mercia Police in relation to Firearms Licensing in the television media. However, he mustn't lose sight of the fact that law abiding citizens such as myself actually do not benefit from Firearms Licensing at all, unless as a member of the public, I am protected by such a licensing or gun control system from crime by persons who should not possess firearms or shotguns. This may sound odd, but so is the history of Firearms Legislation, which has been put in place for reasons that vary significantly each time a Government wishes to control the ownership and use of Firearms, often illogically. Here's a link to a brief potted history, written in 1985, before the events of Hungerford (1988) or Dunblane (1996).http://sunray22b.com/Firearms%20Act%201920.pdf As you will see, Firearms Licences are supposed to benefit the general public, and the accepted vision is the general public pays for them through taxation, and that a third of the cost of issuing licences has been the usual payment demanded of the person wishing to obtain a Firearms Licence. Its also on public record in Parliament that Bedfordshire Police calculated the actual costs of processing Firearms Applications, etc, you might wish to ask West Mercia to compile similar figures and compare for inefficiencies.http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmhaff/447/447vw02.htmI'm also aware that ACPO has come up with a figure of £94, which seems to compare badly with the cost to Bedfordshire Police of £130, and one third of that gives a figure below the current Licensing Fee of £50, perhaps a case where the cost should be reduced, not increased? I hope this information has been of some help to our elected PCC. Best regards, XXXX Shrewsbury

This is the redacted response

Dear Mr XXXXX​

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Thank you for taking the time to write to me concerning firearms certificates and the cost of their issue. The Chief Constable will be publishing a new procedure for dealing with these in West Mercia and I am sure that this will be able to reduce the current cost. I understand the government are also looking into the cost of firearms and shot gun certificates and we look forward to these being published.​

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Yours sincerely​

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Bill Longmore

So it looks like whatever system the Chief Constable is going to put in place will be an attempt to save money, time will tell, but at least the West Mercia PCC has been very active on this subject.
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[finnbear270]

Redacted................. teeth itching agi'n!!