Cold bore first shot accuracy

[Tris88]

Hi,

Everyone has been so helpful with my reloading questions on here so I’m hoping someone will be able to help with this as well.

I’m not sure if this is a reloading issue or a rifle issue, however I’ve only recently noticed it.

Here is some info on the rifle and loads which I’m guessing I’ll be asked.
Rifle - Bergara B14 Hunter 6.5CM 22” with wildcat evolution mod (fired 150 ELD-x, 50 fox)
Bullets - Fox 123gr
Powder - 40gr Reloader 16
Brass - Peterson SRP
Primers - Murom Competition

So Ed has supplied me with some lovely accurate rounds, I had issues with the lighter 100gr but the 123 seems to shoot nicely. I hope!

I’m struggling with cold bore accuracy. Here is a description of the photos.
Black Writing - first test of 40gr RL16, 27fps ES, Average speed 2647fps
1-uncleaned cold barrel
2-5 - rest of group

Yellow writing - same load, didn’t chrono
1 - Cleaned barrel first shot, cold barrel
2-5 - rest of 5 shot group, called the left shot as I fired.
6 - Left barrel to cool, applied 1cm windage R
7 - aimed at right dot, removed 1cm windage R, no moderator

I spoke to 1967 Spud, (who I bought the rifle from, also mainly because their advice line is open). They said some barrels shoot differently on the first shot. Now this is my stalking rifle and I expect it to be accurate. I don’t really want to be compensating.

Am I being an idiot somewhere, or is this what I should expect?

Thanks,

Tristan

 

[308tikka]

Has it been properly dried out after cleaning? If theres oil in there it may increase pressure a bit and therefore elevation. Burnt off after the first shot...

Its why many competition shooters either discard data from first shot straight after cleaning, or have blow-off shots prior to string/detail.

If its for stalking, and its consistent, say 1 or 1-2 inches high at 100, then you know likely POI-aim accordingly.

 

[Tris88]

Hi, yeah the fouling shot I’m not worried about, just curious as to if this is normal. Cold barrel shots being more than 1.5” different.

 

[Mud Stuffin]

Have you tried eliminating everything you can with the rifle and scope to start with? Check the rings and screws on the rail if it has one, try it without the mod? Then maybe try some factory loads to see if the same thing happens?

 

[nathan83]

Also I’d check barrel float as well. Although my sako started going off on the second shot until I sorted it out

 

[paul o']

Have you try'd to play with coal you could even try 40.2 then 40.4 etc , my fox like a jump and run better at the top end load .270 130gr fox

Its bob on even on a cold morning .

 

[HandB]

None of my rifles show any odd behaviour on the first shot - the cold bore shots group the same as the later shots. Furthermore, I shoot them hard on range sessions with long strings of shots when the barrel gets super hot and the point of impact still does not shift. Some of my rifles are free floated, others are not, yet still no difference. I do make sure there is no storage oil in the barrel before each shooting session. To do this I wipe out the oil from the barrel with a dry patch, then with a patch soaked in methylated spirits, then a dry patch.

 

[Tris88]

Correct me if I’m wrong but if the stock or scope fixings were loose or wrong would all the shots not be off.

 

[Totsy]

Mop out the CHAMBER as well as the barrel to remove all the oil/solvent. I find that any solvent left in the chamber doesn’t allow the brass to grip the chamber and this can alter POI. Usually after the first round the brass removes all the solvent from the chamber.
I use a dowel with a slot cut in the end. I push a strip of rag into the slot and twirl it around in the chanber.

 

[Boosh]

Thats a bugger Tris, has the rifle got a skinny sporter barrel?
My T3x lite can move around a bit when it warms up, but 3 shots in rapid succession and its fine.
Also is the mod clean, just looking down a wildcat mod after a few shots and you can see carbon building up in clumps sometimes.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Tristan
It may be the rifle, it may be you. One useful thing to do is to give the rifle to someone who is a good rifle shot and get them to shoot it. As noted above, it's also worthwhile trying various factory rounds. Some rifles shoot their first shot consistently slower, other rifles shoot their first shot consistently faster. I wouldn't have a rifle that the produced a gap of more than 0.5 MOA between the first shot to subsequent shots. As a first step I would try shooting a group off the bipod and use a rear bag.
Regards
JCS

 

[NullMac]

The US guys would tell you that more often than not it is cold shooter not cold bore.

If that is repeatable then that's fine as you can compensate for it. The only way to really know is to do some controlled experiments. Always start with the same bore condition. Try shooting this rifle first; try a few shots with another rifle; try some dry shots. If there is a repeatable effect either learn the compensation or put a fouler through it early on.

 

[Tris88]

Thats a bugger Tris, has the rifle got a skinny sporter barrel?
My T3x lite can move around a bit when it warms up, but 3 shots in rapid succession and its fine.
Also is the mod clean, just looking down a wildcat mod after a few shots and you can see carbon building up in clumps sometimes.

Skinny barrel indeed. I actually put the wildcat in the sonic bath last night. As I wondered this as well.
I’m tempted to shoot it tomorrow without mod to test it.

 

[kenbro]

Change your sights so the first round from a cold clean barrel goes where you want it to.
It’s usually the first one that counts.

Not a good idea to shoot bullets through a dry unlubricated bore, IMO.

After I’ve cleaned and dried a barrel I push a patch through that’s saturated in lockeze, then stand the rifle muzzle down until the carrier evaporates. Then push one very loose patch through. This leaves some graphite to help the bullet along.
Ken.

 

[Tris88]

Change your sights so the first round from a cold clean barrel goes where you want it to.
It’s usually the first one that counts.

Not a good idea to shoot bullets through a dry unlubricated bore, IMO.

After I’ve cleaned and dried a barrel I push a patch through that’s saturated in lockeze, then stand the rifle muzzle down until the carrier evaporates. Then push one very loose patch through. This leaves some graphite to help the bullet along.
Ken.

I’m yet to need that second shot with my stalking rifle. I am very particular about shooting deer, being humane is very important to me. However I’m well aware that I will need to take that second shot at some point, I’m keen to try and narrow the gap.

Maybe I’ve had too much time away from stalking (3 months) and I’m a cold first shot shooter. Though I haven’t been previously so it does seem odd

 

[Utectok]

shooter error can often cause this

 

[Tris88]

I get that, it just seems strange that it never has previously.

 

[gixer1]

Try not cleaning, don’t change anything and just shoot a group.

Then remove the mod, and shoot a group. See what the difference is.

I had an issue with grouping with fox 123gr in 6.5cm until I sorted out the OAL, seems to be ok now.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[pob]

I have found this now that I have switched to non-toxic factory in my Blaser R8. It was always as HandB described before with my 6.5 swede and lead; no variation unless I let the barrel get too hot.

I've just switched to another R8 in .308" and it seems to have the same issue as you. Now, I get a very different point of impact from a cold barrel and I have lost a lot of confidence.

But I am going to try another session as JCS suggests, with bipod and rear bag. It could still be me.

Good luck finding the solution.

 

[Muir]

Don't clean it. ~Muir