Digital or glass.

[The Singing Stalker]

I went to the stalking show the other week on the Saturday, I noticed the Swarovski site and other glass sites seemed to be not as full as they were years ago. However, those selling digital sites were run off their feet. Maybe my timing was off.
Now, however, I had a think about my rifles and I have a z6i on my deer stalking rifle, but all others are either digital or thermal. My C50 for example is a fantastic piece of kit albeit it heavy as xxxx, but of course, there are things like the Alpex etc that are out now, which are lighter.

Now, I can’t remember if I saw it here is somewhere else but, I saw the comment, unless you are shooting a few hundred yards over a hill, then a digital scope is better.

Personally, I am waiting for the release of the new Hik 4k bino/nv/thermal/range finder and considering selling my Leica binos/rangefinder. Yes, you will need to ensure you have spare batteries, yes, they are more prone to breaking, but the all around usability is interesting.


So, what is the view of the great unwashed. Should Zeiss and Swarovski be worried, is it a phase? What would you buy?

 

[flatliner]

Nothing loses money like a digital scope, at least good quality glass will hold a good proportion of its value

 

[Miceton]

Glass all day long

 

[nun_hunter]

Expensive European optics are like expensive watches. Do they tell the time better or more accurately? No.

Do they hold their value better than a cheap digital watch? Yes.

Do they give you bragging rights over those who can't afford them or choose not to? Yes

Are they something nice to keep and appreciate when you use them? Yes

As an outright, shoot more deer I think digital wins by a country mile and will definitely take some business away but those top European manufacturers will just get someone else to make a digital scope, brand it as their own and charge gullible fools 3X the price compared to the existing model it was based on.

 

[old 30-06]

Glass every time.

 

[Jon P]

Middle of day I would say Glass. Last light i
Would say digital.

 

[Heym SR20]

Glass everytime. Ergonomically a glass scope sits much better of a rifle. Is always working, and you just need to raise and shoot.

Electronic digital scopes you need to turn on, get the right menu, check battery levels, recharge etc etc. And the image is still not as good as a decent glass.

 

[mealiejimmy]

A lot of recreational stalkers like the traditions associated with stalking and a good glass scope is part of that tradition
Accordingly, a lot of guides who take people out stalking follow those traditions to satisfy their paying customers
Talk to contractors who are paid to shoot deer and have quotas to reach, and the majority use thermal - often a front add-on
From a technical perspective, glass has reached or is very close to, the limits of what can be achieved with regard to light transmission and since image resolution is limited by the human eye, there's no way glass is about to give anyone stalking at dawn or dusk another 30 minutes to see or shoot deer
Note that the most expensive scope in the Swarovski line up is the DS which is priced not for the quality of it's glass (in that respect, it's no better than cheaper Swarovski scopes) - but for it's electronic "toys"
In daytime, any decent glass scope will give a higher resolution image than even the best digital scope so, if you only shoot in daylight, then stick with glass
Although the resolution of even the best digital scope is not as good as glass, it is, in many cases, good enough to see potential targets with sufficient resolution to make a positive identification and take a safe and humane shot
The big benefit of digital is that it will continue to produce a usable colour image for a significant length of time after even the best glass has given up and, of course, a digital scope can be used in full darkness with a suitable IR illuminator
Should Swarovski, Zeiss S&B, Leica etc be worried about the increasing use of digital scopes?
IMHO, their biggest competition is not from digital but from ever improving cheaper brands like Athlon, Delta, Sightron, Arken etc who are selling some scopes with about 90-95% of the performance of the "big" names, but at a fraction of the price
Digital scopes are still a very small minority in the overall worldwide riflescope market - partly because they are not legal in a significant number of countries
Because of the laws in the UK they take a larger share of the market here and from talking to various manufacturers and sellers of NV and thermal scopes, the UK is, by some margin, the most competitive NV/thermal market in the world
Most firearms owners are not professionals - it's a hobby - even a passion for most of us, and if we have the financial means we tend to be attracted to what are seen as "aspirational" brands like Swaro and Zeiss
They are beautifully crafted pieces of optical equipment with well deserved reputations for quality, reliability, back up and service and for many, they bestow a pride in ownership that a digital scope could never match
However, for more and more people, digital allows them to have a single scope on a rifle that can then be used at any time of day or night for a wider range of quarry and the practicality of that option can outweigh the more limited capabilities of a glass scope
Note that I've only discussed glass scopes and dedicated NV/thermal scopes and not front or rear add-ons

Cheers

Bruce

 

[jimbo255]

I’ve tried with digital a couple times and both times I’ve ended up putting my z6i back on. I use a thermal as a spotter but a Led lamp on the scope for the shot. I’ve done my bollocks in on the loss of value in digital. So IMO glass every time

 

[Steff]

Just take a look at the topics on here. Thermal / NV are starting to make out the majority of all post. I watch this with dismay.
For me it take all the fun and joy out of shooting. It's like driving a car with lane assist. I might just as well sit in a bus.

 

[David Barker]

I haver looked through digital scopes and bins and while they are very good the picture is no where near as clear as Good Glass. I still enjoy watching deer and other wildlife while i am out so it will be glass for me. But i do realise for the Killers out there the new thermals and digitals will kill more deer.

 

[Overlay]

Matter of weighing up your usage. For deer stalking all day glass fits perfectly, if it’s yours numbers job or the deer your stalking are running the dawn and dusk times only - digital is there for that

I wouldn’t settle on one or the other but would lean to day glass purely on the precise unfailable quality
The hour before and after light is by far the most busiest period for deer, so if it floats your boat and a need digital with extra batteries and continual sight check
I shoot a hell of a lot at night foxes etc using thermal and digital on a shed load of calibres, but day scopes for stalking The choice

 

[Tim.243]

I haver looked through digital scopes and bins and while they are very good the picture is no where near as clear as Good Glass. I still enjoy watching deer and other wildlife while i am out so it will be glass for me. But i do realise for the Killers out there the new thermals and digitals will kill more deer.

Glass gives a lovely sight picture (have a z6) on the .270, however when the habits of deer change (which they do) through pressure from shooting (during the day) numbers of people around then deer come out as the light fades.
Muntjac are a great example a little brown deer who rarely stand still against a dark background at last light!
Yes you can just pick one out but the truth is it a bit of a guess so I made the switch of using my digital set up to take the guess work out of shot placement which is something we all want right!

Sika from what I read also told by @dlz90 are the worst for coming out at last light so a clean shot when the glass scopes have gone home using the digital is the better option.

Regarding "But i do realise for the Killers out there" many of us use the thermals and digitals for foxing which in my case keeps a very big door open for deer and pigeons.
Stats since Jan-April 39 deer with Digital 5 with Glass scope. 26 foxes 1 with a Glass scope

 

[old 30-06]

I think David Barker has hit the nail on the head. The "killers" out there will kill more deer with the use of thermal and night vision. It is also easier to poach with this equipment. But as Steff said "for me it takes all the fun and joy out of shooting". I am in full agreement with him.

 

[Tim.243]

I think David Barker has hit the nail on the head. The "killers" out there will kill more deer with the use of thermal and night vision. It is also easier to poach with this equipment. But as Steff said "for me it takes all the fun and joy out of shooting". I am in full agreement with him.

I think we have far too many deer for many reasons! (guess why Scotland ditched the Stag season!) also the one hour before after sun set was put in place just What happens in Germany is of no consequence here as they drive their deer/boar with dogs/people into waiting guns. Do that here and it would be uproar, shoot a deer just as the last light has gone and people start complaining people are poaching.

People never complain about rats/foxes/rabbits being shot with digital/thermal yet are happy to pull the race card when it is it is covered in the deer act.

Subject to sections 6 and 8 below, if any person takes or intentionally kills any deer between the expiry of the first hour after sunset and the beginning of the last hour before sunrise, he shall be guilty of an offence.

 

[pob]

Both for me, swapped over to digital on a Dentler mount for the first/last 30 minutes of legal light (But I might go back to Blaser Saddle mounts).
If I had to choose though, it would be my S&B glass.

 

[sauer]

Mealiejimmy nailed it

for some its cost and ability to use same rig for deer & foxing even in jockistan now law has allowed us to use them

the other biggie as per Bruce's post is the gap between the Big 3 or 4 brands & japanese ED glass has closed BIG time!!!! scope of a £1000 or less up there ... almost ..with glass twice price or more

your never gonna beat that cracking natural sight picture of a glass scope on a good clear day / early evening ...but digital just allows you to keep going & its cheaper !


Paul

 

[Overlay]

Both for me, swapped over to digital on a Dentler mount for the first/last 30 minutes of legal light (But I might go back to Blaser Saddle mounts).
If I had to choose though, it would be my S&B glass.

On my small calibres 22 LR WMR, 22 hornet 204 I’m using hawke scopes and a pard 007V they all work perfectly which means I have a shelve full of swaro’s, S&B scopes gathering dust but before I had a nv and scope sets for each rifle the add on works
I’m seriously thinking of a NV for the am/pm golden hour but which one ???
It would be going on blaser mounts so easy to swap then the gremlin on the other shoulder says no

 

[Scuffy]

I think David Barker has hit the nail on the head. The "killers" out there will kill more deer with the use of thermal and night vision. It is also easier to poach with this equipment. But as Steff said "for me it takes all the fun and joy out of shooting". I am in full agreement with him.

And you wonder why the antis have a complete field day with the shooting fraternity.
Why you chose to term anyone who does anything more than recreational stalking a 'killer'? By that I presume you mean Deer managers? Gamekeepers? Stalkers? Deer contractors ?

 

[paulbshooting]

I thought the same walking around the stalking show. Certainly horses for courses, and I see the latest tech as additional tools to use if needed. On certain ground I have where fallow are really problematic then maximising first and last light legal shooting opportunities is beneficial. Otherwise MK1 eyeballs, good binos and a high quality glass scope plus luck and fieldcraft are are what stalking is all about in my opinion.