Disposing of shotguns on my ticket that aren't mine (yet)

[spandit]

A "friend" (I use inverted commas because we're not really that close - our daughters used to go to school together) asked me to sign his shotguns onto my licence as his had expired. The police were happy with this and although it was a nuisance having to fit them into my cabinet, they were safe enough.

However, that was over a year ago. His last text to me was in April (and I know he's still alive). I've had no compensation from him for storing his guns (3 x AYA SxS, a 12, a 20 and a 28 bore) and I'm fed up that I can't easily access my own rifles and shotguns as they're all crammed into one cabinet when before they were spread over 2. From speaking to a former police officer (active on here, only just left the force), the police aren't processing new applications at the moment and because his expired, this is how it was treated. I texted him yesterday to ask if he still wanted the guns but have had no reply.

My local RFD would charge £2 per gun, per week (+VAT) which amounts to over £300. At what point can I legally sell (or surrender) the shotguns? I doubt they're worth a lot of money although aforementioned former police officer has expressed an interest in buying the 20 bore. I don't have any 20 or 28 bore cartridges and my local supplier doesn't seem to do them - wouldn't want to have to buy an entire case.

 

[Stalker62]

At what point can I legally sell (or surrender) the shotguns? I doubt they're worth a lot of money although aforementioned former police officer has expressed an interest in buying the 20 bore.

 

[enfieldspares]

I'd be interested in the 28 bore.

But back to the matter raised. What to do? My advice is to conduct any intercourse in writing and by Special Delivery nor Recorded Delivery as "SD" is fully tracked. Request that unless, within, say twenty-eight days the weapons are collected from you by a person with authority to acquire and/or possess that you will then contact his issuing authority and seek their advice.

Also if he does get any person to collect them you MUST enter them on that person's SGC or if and RFD obtain a receipt. It being furthermore a wicked world take photographs of the weapons from both left side and right side anyway with a copy of that day's front page of whatever national newspaper is easiest to obtain underneath that gun. And a receipt from the person collecting them.

But beware you cannot assume ANY property rights aka "title" (to destroy, deactivate, surrender or sell) any of them unless you have his express permission if such action....surrender to the police...would result in their loss of his ownership of them. My advice? A formal letter to his issuing police authority.

If you didn't ask for payment for storing them that's hard luck but at least a lesson learned.

 

[spandit]

I suspect he'll look to sell them but wondered if there was a period of time after which they do become legally mine? Funny thing is, he's a solicitor so would be the person to ask

 

[Stalker62]

Funny thing is, he's a solicitor so would be the person to ask.

Perhaps do that.

 

[Morkai]

If they're on your ticket then arent they legally yours in this situation?

Personally I wouldn't string him like that by selling them, just call him, dont bother texting, just speak.

 

[tim@tcs]

I suspect he'll look to sell them but wondered if there was a period of time after which they do become legally mine? Funny thing is, he's a solicitor so would be the person to ask

No, property rights are absolute but he should find a means of storing them or pay you for the inconvenience. Why didnt he hand over his cabinet as well?

 

[spandit]

Perhaps do that.

I would if he was responding to my messages. I don't want to escalate things to a formal level quite yet but would like to know where I stand

 

[spandit]

No, property rights are absolute but he should find a means of storing them or pay you for the inconvenience. Why didnt he hand over his cabinet as well?

I don't think he envisaged it going on this long. Neither of us did. He did initially want them back so would need a cabinet.

 

[Morkai]

Easiest thing is just to call him..

 

[Stalker62]

I would if he was responding to my messages. I don't want to escalate things to a formal level quite yet but would like to know where I stand

Just go ‘old school’ - talk to him.

 

[Stumpy2]

You currently ‘possess’ them, whereas your friend ‘owns’ them. In the same way you can be the registered keeper of a car, but a finance or lease company ‘owns’ the car.
You cannot sell them and you would be on questionable ground if you transfer them to someone else.
Firstly speak with him, ask what’s going on and decide if you can or want to continue with your arrangement.

 

[Tf223]

I had similar with a friend and his dads aya yeoman. The dad was happy to give it to me as a rough gun, the mate wanted it as it was his dads. I gave the mate notice that on x date that they would be stored with x gun shop at his cost of x per week, and that once the bill hit their trade in value agreed with the shop they would sell it on to cover their costs.

Never knew whether he did pick it up, and wasn’t interested in finding out.

It worked mind… they left my cupboard for the shop! And he couldn’t say I didn’t give him reasonable notice to have out in an application, or to sort another mate to stitch up with it!

 

[enfieldspares]

You currently ‘possess’ them, whereas your friend ‘owns’ them. In the same way you can be the registered keeper of a car, but a finance or lease company ‘owns’ the car.
You cannot sell them and you would be on questionable ground if you transfer them to someone else.

This. Sullivan v Caithness is a case that "possession" in firearms is complicated. You may be "in possession" of them but you down possess them as in own them. The owner "possesses" them and still "possesses" them even if not physically in his or her keeping, yet, also even though you are not the owner if you have them in your keeping without a valid authority you will be guilty of "possessing" them without that valid authority. Which is in contradiction to Sullivan v Caithness. Nowadays there is an additional offence of "minding" a weapon because of the legal bother that was caused by Sullivan v Caithness and its nuances about "degree of control".

 

[spandit]

I get that I can't legally sell them now but at some point if I can't get an answer from the owner, I must be able to dispose of them.

 

[Andrewslater]

Who needs enemies aye.

 

[spandit]

Who needs enemies aye.

This isn't the "making friends" forum, it's for legal issues. I'm well aware I have less formal means to resolve this but wanted to know where I stood if they didn't work. If you have nothing constructive to comment, go and troll someone else

 

[fixedwheel]

@spandit How were they entered onto your SGC? In column B it should read, "sold, let on hire, given or lent"
It doesn't change anything morally, but it might give said "friend" a kick up the rear to get things sorted.

 

[spandit]

@spandit How were they entered onto your SGC? In column B it should read, "sold, let on hire, given or lent"
It doesn't change anything morally, but it might give said "friend" a kick up the rear to get things sorted.

I can't remember off hand, I'll check when I'm home

 

[VSS]

A "friend" (I use inverted commas because we're not really that close - our daughters used to go to school together) asked me to sign his shotguns onto my licence as his had expired. The police were happy with this and although it was a nuisance having to fit them into my cabinet, they were safe enough.

However, that was over a year ago. His last text to me was in April (and I know he's still alive). I've had no compensation from him for storing his guns (3 x AYA SxS, a 12, a 20 and a 28 bore) and I'm fed up that I can't easily access my own rifles and shotguns as they're all crammed into one cabinet when before they were spread over 2. From speaking to a former police officer (active on here, only just left the force), the police aren't processing new applications at the moment and because his expired, this is how it was treated. I texted him yesterday to ask if he still wanted the guns but have had no reply.

My local RFD would charge £2 per gun, per week (+VAT) which amounts to over £300. At what point can I legally sell (or surrender) the shotguns? I doubt they're worth a lot of money although aforementioned former police officer has expressed an interest in buying the 20 bore. I don't have any 20 or 28 bore cartridges and my local supplier doesn't seem to do them - wouldn't want to have to buy an entire case.

I have just been through exactly the same. A friend asked me to store his shotguns as his certificate expired while he was going through a messy divorce. He subsequently remarried, but due to some mental health issues (his or his wife's? It matters not) he has been unable to get a new SGC. I ended up looking after the guns for ages (several years) but really needed the space. So now, with his agreement I have sold them and sent him the money. There is no complications associated with doing that if they've been signed onto your certificate anyway.