Do British Tradesmen still have pride in their work?

[splash]

If pipes are coming out of a floor you don’t have a wet room, all pipe work should be above the coved flooring

 

[Ronin]

I’m lucky I guess, I have a Keith, who’s work is very good - he takes care, he turns up and works, he cleans up after himself and I trust him 100%

Everyone should have a Keith

 

[User00040]

We had 2 bathrooms stripped out & replaced last year & on the recommendation of our builder neighbour we used a Polish heating engineer. He did all of it by himself to an extraordinarily high standard; couldn't be happier after some of my recent experiences with lazy tradesmen.

Have a plumber mate from Aberdeen who was telling me about the influx of Polish tradesmen when they became part of the EU, guys on the ground were worried but the owners and site managers loved it as they found them to be highly skilled and qualified as well as willing to work all hours as they had never seen better money in their lives (supposedly a week's wages with overtime was more than a month's pay back home!).

Funny thing was that the Polish workers were reluctant to work with the Romanians who came after them. So much so that they started setting up their own businesses, picked up the regional accent, Aleksander became Alex and Olek became Olly, some settled down and started families. Now you will find that a lot of the top firms have tradesmen from Eastern Europe.

My plumber mate who is now winding down due to age still does some on and off work overseeing apprentices for a company owned by a bloke who originally worked under him and came over here barely speaking English!

The cream always rises to the top and you usually pay for what you get, but there are some very competent people with no tickets/qualifications who could build a home from the ground up.

 

[tikka_madras]

We’ve done a couple of major building projects over the years and the quality was a very mixed bag.

The most amusing was a simple job to repaint a door...used trustatrader or similar, got a reasonable quote...and two travellers showed up. I better stay in I thought and made them some tea as they began. A few hours later they had done a fairly reasonable job so I paid them. They picked up their bags to reveal a large neatly swept pile of paint scrapings and legged it. I thought that I’d got away lightly so swept up the scrapings to find they’d spilt blue paint all over the path and used the scrapings to hide it. Never again. It took as long to clean the path as it would have done to paint the door myself.

 

[stephentri]

Years ago when you served your time in a trade it was a city and guild's qualification, the government than changed it to NVQ so it would be easier for more people to get a qualification, this lowered the standard needed to become a tradesman,NVQ-No Value Qualification.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Years ago when you served your time in a trade it was a city and guild's qualification, the government than changed it to NVQ so it would be easier for more people to get a qualification, this lowered the standard needed to become a tradesman,NVQ-No Value Qualification.

Not very qualified.
3 year apprenticeships are a joke the first four years of mine was spent learning to grow up and listen, in the last year I learnt the most.

 

[Mungo]

My theory is that it all depends on a reasonably acute awareness of the payoffs of screwing you over.

If it looks like there’s an opportunity to build a relationship over time with lots of repeat business (ie. you are likely to become a predictable cash source); if they have limited opportunities for other, better paying or more predictable work; and if you have the opportunity to impose reputational damage - then they will make an effort

If it looks to be a small, one off job; if there’s lots of other work available; and if it’s hard for you to spread the word about poor workmanship, you’re f**ked.

And, in the words of Kevin Macleod: pick two from the list: good, fast, cheap...

 

[Robs]

Simple answer is no.

When I moved to the south west a developer friend explained to me that the only way to get a job done properly was to do it myself. List of bodged jobs done by "trademan" is emmense but here goes :

Shower tray draining away from plug
Shower tiling onto plasterboard not aquapanel
Shower tray to shallow for water flow so it over flows
Plumber using angle grinder too close to newly fitted tiles and damaging them
Bricklayer wanting £1500 for two days work then asks later if I had any work
Kitchen fitter who cut through his router power cable then ran out of work top as he was using a argos router and it wouldn't cut straight
Roofer who had to be chased to finish the job
Solar panels and central heating setup so that the panels never heated water
Electrician trying to charge £120 for two electrical tails and £350 for fitting
Plasterer who finished the walls too high for skirting boards to be fitted
Chippy who couldn't fit new doors to new walls.

Rant now over

 

[Overlay]

Having got a new house 2 years ago, the work required was substantial, we’ve had 2 plumbers, 2 leccys and 2 conservatory \window \ door installers in all + the kitchen fitter we’ve been put through the mill with the first wave, first leccy Thought he was going to leave the earth cable laying across the door threshold - he said that’s alright mate when I asked to channel it out and do it properly - he didn’t have the tools to do that, so I had to channel it all out install the cable and make good, on top of that I asked for the consumer unit that had extra capacity and two seperate boxes for the man cave and garage run outs showed him a picture off all the bits , unit cost and all the details and advised what is was for etc etc, on the day he turned up with a unit that was far too small and cost 60 quid, after a discussion he trotted off to get the proper unit, had to wait 5 weeks for the ticket before the central Heating could be installed Because of earthing, in the end I drove other to his house and collected It £700 the bill for an hours work
conservatory guy 1. - 3 guys turned up done the brickwork all ok, next day (different people )the plinth on the corners were short and twisted, upon asking the guys - oh that’s ok mate we’ll pack them out - my mate has cut them too short - they Took the mullered conservatory Away and after getting the brickwork checked Steve installed the new conservatory - at last - and done a cracking job
I paid the 1st one just for the brickwork

worst by far was the kitchen fitter, took twice as long, cost double the original price given, drilled a load of holes right through the wall into the next room and I had to brick up and plaster the serving hatch, before the tiles could be installed that was supposed to be included in the cost, after two weeks of Cooking and washing up in the garden I f*#@%ked him off out of it and finished It myself

The trades we have Now Steve, (Windows and doors / conservatory) Scott (plumber) and Lee (The leccy ) Are brilliant Tradesman and true to their word.
you have to go through the mill sometimes. - but there are decent trades out there

 

[Overlay]

Having got a new house 2 years ago, the work required was substantial, we’ve had 2 plumbers, 2 leccys and 2 conservatory \window \ door installers in all + the kitchen fitter we’ve been put through the mill with the first wave, first leccy Thought he was going to leave the earth cable laying across the door threshold - he said that’s alright mate when I asked to channel it out and do it properly - he didn’t have the tools to do that, so I had to channel it all out install the cable and make good, on top of that I asked for the consumer unit that had extra capacity and two seperate boxes for the man cave and garage run outs showed him a picture off all the bits , unit cost and all the details and advised what is was for etc etc, on the day he turned up with a unit that was far too small and cost 60 quid, after a discussion he trotted off to get the proper unit, had to wait 5 weeks for the ticket before the central Heating could be installed Because of earthing, in the end I drove other to his house and collected It £700 the bill for an hours work
conservatory guy 1. - 3 guys turned up done the brickwork all ok, next day (different people )the plinth on the corners were short and twisted, upon asking the guys - oh that’s ok mate we’ll pack them out - my mate has cut them too short - they Took the mullered conservatory Away and after getting the brickwork checked Steve installed the new conservatory - at last - and done a cracking job
I paid the 1st one just for the brickwork

worst by far was the kitchen fitter, took twice as long, cost double the original price given, drilled a load of holes right through the wall into the next room and I had to brick up and plaster the serving hatch, before the tiles could be installed that was supposed to be included in the cost, after two weeks of Cooking and washing up in the garden I f*#@%ked him off out of it and finished It myself

The trades we have Now Steve, (Windows and doors / conservatory) Scott (plumber) and Lee (The leccy ) Are brilliant Tradesman and true to their word

. Doubled up for some reason
you have to go through the mill sometimes. - but there are decent trades out there

 

[Lickashot]

And the knock on effect is now when looking to buy a house, do you take on a mammoth project on your own and do it properly - or buy a house 'recently renovated with no expense spared' that is likely a dangerous disaster zone? As for a new build, forget it.
Not a good state of affairs tbh.

 

[Mick Miller]

Pretty typical of the GBT attitude these days, unlike some of the better European countries (Germany) it seems the building trades attract mainly those that failed at everything else in life, there are a few good ones but, by hell, do you have to run the gamut of sh*t ones first.

Several pals in the building trade only employ Polish workmen these days, specifically advertising in Poland for tradesmen, paying to relocate, house and settle staff as they grew so weary of lazy, stupid, useless British trades. My own personal experiences have been mixed, the local painter is excellent, fantastic, reminiscent of the time when people quoted a time, turned up, worked hard, did a good job and got paid. The oil boiler installers, a local company that have been around for years, appear to employ thick-as-mince tattoed troglodytes, incapable of even basic tasks.

 

[eldon]

@FrenchieBoy your story and how it came to be shows many parallels to my mums.
Her bath was too deep for an elder person with knee replacement due to it being an old enamelled cast one.
The job was funded by some support grant from the council or something.

Does this then allow the company to make a killing and simply rely on the customer to complain about the poor quality, or not as the case maybe in a lot of cases?
My mum knows nothing about plumbing so is that what these companies hope for?

@alberta boy makes a good point; a large portion of the capable and competent skilled workers have gone elsewhere for greener pastures and more money whilst the cowboys are quite content to sit back here and rip people off.

Naturally not ALL tradesmen are rubbish and I have a few friends who do excellent work but you have to be very selective and prepared to pay above the minimum price tag at times.

 

[geoffw]

A boiler engineer friend of mine paid out his fee to, whatever the company is who, ah, Corgi? Just remembered. They were supposed to inspect his work at least twice a year to ensure the standard, suffice to say over 10 years they never did.
complete waste of time. Unfortunately it just brings standards down. Yes you can register and no one will check.

Had one established Checkatrade type came out to a knocking boiler, sucked his teeth, "new one guv- £3k". I got an young apprentice lad out to flush out the central heating in preparation, he turned up early, worked an extra 4hrs to get the water clean enough to drink, had to be forced to take some more money.... and then solved the boiler with a new £10 part, needless to say, old chap got his marching orders and the boiler was going strong 5yrs later. So...there are some old ***** out there too, and also some good, honest youngsters with integrity.

 

[jer]

You mention the site manager so I assume this work was done as part of a refurb scheme, if that's is the case you will find that the rates dictated by many companies mean that the "tradesmen" employed are at the lower end of the capability scale. There are plenty of very good British tradesmen who do take pride in their work the problems start when they havetoturn out everincreasing amounts of work to earn a decent wage. New build sites are notorious for shody workmanship and some of the work produced is way below standard because the supervision is not adequate. Most major house builders are only concerned with profit and as long as it looks ok they don't really give a damn. I would never buy a new build home from a major developer because you know it's going to be built as cheaply as possible.

 

[User00013]

I know when I was doing my trade at the local college I can't say there was one of those guys who wanted to be there never mind learn, in a sense I was like that too I dint have a clue what I wanted to do I think part and only part is problems with the school they weren't trying to tell you or encourage you to work hard and learn they only did that with the high flyers the lower ones were just left to get out the door ASAP then they dint have a clue what they were going to do many just ended up in trade courses just because everyone else was doing it not to learn and work hard. Part of the problem it seems is people want the big money but can't be bothered to work for it.

I wish someone had pushed me to see what I really wanted to do when I was in primary school and showed me long term of how working hard in school could be benifical in later life. But them days are gone all I can do is teach my children to work hard and do the best they can and think long term.

 

[User00035]

I find it depressing that the general concuss is that British folk cannot complete anything to a decent enough standard.
If this were the

You only hear about the bad jobs. When something goes wrong or the work is poor it's oh so-and-so bodged this, they were dreadful, all that money we spent, never again etc etc and no one ever hears the last of it.
When the work is exemplary and the customer is delighted, all the time and money is forgotten about in an instant and they tell their friends, of course "we" gutted the whole place. "We" opened up the fireplace , "we" rewired, "we" put in the new kitchen, "we" built the extension...".

There's also very rarely any discussion about cowboy clients. People who've watched too many TV property shows and think they can "project manage" a process they know absolutely nothing about.
They pay and architect thousands to produce detailed plans. They get a contractor to price the work and compile a schedule of works. Then they throw all that out of the window and think they can do it better themselves.
The result being that costs sky rocket. They get massively overcharged on materials. They do things in the wrong order. They get the logistics wrong and clog up the site with unwanted materials, they fail to get needed materials on time and double book sub contractors. They duplicate work and create extra jobs. They blunder along trying to make snap decisions one at a time under stress as they are confronted by them, instead having the entire process mapped out mentally and on paper beforehand and always working and thinking at least five or six steps ahead. As a result they become overwhelmed. They make very poor decisions. They think they know better than the architect they've just paid thousands of pounds to and they get bogged down in details they don't understand. They Google too much and overthink things. The schedule is the first thing out of the window and then they lose control of the budget. And the builder gets the blame, all the while scratching his head thinking, it's a two bed extension with a couple of knock-throughs and a few structural alterations for God's sake... What is all the drama about.

 

[long_range_rob]

We have a 1980’s built Persimmon home in a close of 12 houses. The footings only go down a metre, the block work would be fine if Stevie Wonder had done it and they used a 4” soil pipe to provide sewerage to the whole close.

 

[reiver]

Plenty of very good British tradesmen
both young and old still about . The thing is we are all booked up for at least 6-12 months in advance with regular customers. The chancers pick up the other work that we cannot do or don’t want . There’s good trades men and cheap tradesmen but not good and cheap tradesmen

 

[reiver]

Ps .
there’s as many bad customers as well as tradesmen . Champagne tastes with beer prices .
There not called “custards “for nothing you know