DSC required ?
- Thread starter f17ant
- Start date
The question here is whether it’s a prerequisite to being granted an FAC for deer - not whether someone thinks it’s what everyone should do anyway.
In general, the ‘why wouldn’t you do [something] attitude is a very unwise one to adopt especially where it can result in impositions being used as a restrictions.
mine were very open about that fact when I applied in 2016. Spoke with the FEO and he said dsc1 would really help my case and show a commitment to using it rather than just having it as an open condition (a few have open but never use them yada yada yada)
To be fair even though been shooting for many years prior to that and taking deer and boar for a few years I went and did it more as self development/ is there a tip/trick/hint I can pick up to help me.
I had my licenses granted with target only on the .308, did my DSC1 using my rifle as was run at a range, when I passed forwarded the email with my results to the FEO, asked if he could swap the .308 to a closed ticket and no issue, new ticket 3 or 4 days later, no cost. Wait 6 months, here’s some evidence I have been out (2 paid stalk reciepts and a few carcass photos, been asked to help a mate on various permissions he has, can I have the .308 opened, yes sure here’s your new ticket.
Siggy
Well-Known Member
sounds like good advice to me, a DSC is around £300, ie, probably less than the hourly rate of a barrister, and you probably get a lot more for your money!
Exactly. The number of people who've said to me that they'd like to get into deer stalking (and the number of similar intros on here) is significant. But so what. Just because you want to do something doesn't mean everyone should lay down the red carpet.
We need more people who are dedicated to effective deer management. We need more young people. We need, dare I say it!, more women. I'm am totally pro getting more people into to this work.
Meanwhile the Police have to do their duty of distinguishing between those who are going to cull deer and those who want the cachet of polishing their deer rifle and telling people they have an open ticket.
Perhaps but it's £300 that is not a hoop we legally have to jump through and if it was legislation I understand what is needing to be done for the end result, not just because someone has a not so legal brainwave. It's pure principle.........you're 1000% correct on more for your money! You a barrister with such knowledge
Siggy
Well-Known Member
I've made some bad career choices in my time, unfortunately, the law isn't one of them.....you're 1000% correct on more for your money! You a barrister with such knowledge
What did they do before the magical DSC came along?
Local plod had a chat with the applicant and worked out if they were genuine or billy bullshitter FAC issued or refused.
When I did my lvl 1 there were 2 members of the fld on the course the writing was on the wall then.
Local plod had a chat with the applicant and worked out if they were genuine or billy bullshitter FAC issued or refused.
When I did my lvl 1 there were 2 members of the fld on the course the writing was on the wall then.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
The police have a duty to public safety by having some control over who is deemed safe to own firarms. They have no duty or responsibility to control deer populations. If someone wants to shoot one deer a year then that's good reason according to the HO Guidance.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.
A formal deerstalking qualification is not enshrined in legislation, period!
If it was (heaven forfend) it would be a formal requirement across all police forces rather than the often arbitrary decision of the “local force”. The local force therefore is using “policy” to require, for example, a DSC1 (other qualifications are available) before granting a centre-fire rifle fac - unlike legislation this can be challenged either by simple email or at the other end of the cost spectrum by engaging a solicitor (ker-ching…).
If you can demonstrate that you meet the more obvious criteria - sound character/clean CRO Check (collective gulp from the SD massive but steady lads) and “good reason” e.g. evidence of suitable lands and/or reasonable previous experience (e.g. previous outings/estate letters, club membership etc..) there should be no formal grounds for a refusal. In short and only if you can meet these do not accept the qualification requirement as the final answer. The more we accept this the wider response it will become.
Furthermore - if the shooting community rolls over on the somewhat haphazard “ology” requirement then I fear “policy” may well be strengthened to DSC2 or beyond - think of rod and your own back….
A formal deerstalking qualification is not enshrined in legislation, period!
If it was (heaven forfend) it would be a formal requirement across all police forces rather than the often arbitrary decision of the “local force”. The local force therefore is using “policy” to require, for example, a DSC1 (other qualifications are available) before granting a centre-fire rifle fac - unlike legislation this can be challenged either by simple email or at the other end of the cost spectrum by engaging a solicitor (ker-ching…).
If you can demonstrate that you meet the more obvious criteria - sound character/clean CRO Check (collective gulp from the SD massive but steady lads) and “good reason” e.g. evidence of suitable lands and/or reasonable previous experience (e.g. previous outings/estate letters, club membership etc..) there should be no formal grounds for a refusal. In short and only if you can meet these do not accept the qualification requirement as the final answer. The more we accept this the wider response it will become.
Furthermore - if the shooting community rolls over on the somewhat haphazard “ology” requirement then I fear “policy” may well be strengthened to DSC2 or beyond - think of rod and your own back….
1 or 2 a year is fine, that'll feed the family.
1 outing in 5 years isn't.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Actually a polite and respectful discussion with your FLD works better, but that doesn't mean that you have to give in to their demands.
That’s what I’m planning to do I’ll have a nice chat with him show him evidence of my stalks and if he insists I’ll do the course, simple
1 or 2 deer won't go far to feed a family.
Something small like a roe you'd get through in a few weeks.
This is assuming the FEO doesn't ignore your attempts to make contact...yes yes their workload is far beyond their pay grade I understand that...but a current FAC holder with a variation could be a simple 10-15 minute convo or cuppa with choccy digestives
FWIW my understanding is not only do we have to demonstrate we have good reason to posses and be suitable to possess without a danger to the public. The 'danger element' does not just refer to shooting at people but being able to shoot without endangering others.
Asking for a FAC to facilitate hunting or vermin control arguably places an onus on the applicant to be able to demonstrate that they are capable of shooting safely.
Attending and passing a DSC1 or similar course allows you to say to the police i am capable and here's my proof.
I was told that this was not a legislative requirement, but as an earlier poster suggested, if you want t take it to court and find out, its likley you will lose (courts have a habit of finding for the status quo, i.e. the safe option, unless there is statute or case law which says otherwise IMLE).
If the applicant has other relevant experience which can be demonstrated (e.g. shooting with a stalker known for all the right reason to the local FLO) then that would be good evidence.
When i made may application, i was initially refused grant for 6.5Cm (but granted .17 HMR and .22 FAC Air) subject to either option of demonstrating compliance. I have done both and was granted an open slot for 6.5CM six months after the initial FAC application.
JMHO HTH
Asking for a FAC to facilitate hunting or vermin control arguably places an onus on the applicant to be able to demonstrate that they are capable of shooting safely.
Attending and passing a DSC1 or similar course allows you to say to the police i am capable and here's my proof.
I was told that this was not a legislative requirement, but as an earlier poster suggested, if you want t take it to court and find out, its likley you will lose (courts have a habit of finding for the status quo, i.e. the safe option, unless there is statute or case law which says otherwise IMLE).
If the applicant has other relevant experience which can be demonstrated (e.g. shooting with a stalker known for all the right reason to the local FLO) then that would be good evidence.
When i made may application, i was initially refused grant for 6.5Cm (but granted .17 HMR and .22 FAC Air) subject to either option of demonstrating compliance. I have done both and was granted an open slot for 6.5CM six months after the initial FAC application.
JMHO HTH
gelert
Well-Known Member
A friend I have been mentoring has been granted his first FAC. He was doing his DSC 1 which the FEO said was a contributing factor.
More importantly he has been able to become a Syndicate member I'm part of In Scotland and now has an open certificate for 308.
The DSC1 is a great start, and well worth doing for a host of reasons. Further development and learning in any chosen field is a good thing, and you will learn far more in a few days on a subject you enjoy.
More importantly he has been able to become a Syndicate member I'm part of In Scotland and now has an open certificate for 308.
The DSC1 is a great start, and well worth doing for a host of reasons. Further development and learning in any chosen field is a good thing, and you will learn far more in a few days on a subject you enjoy.
I ageee that it’s good to do the course and learn more, even if my fire arms officers says I don’t need to do it, I’ll probably do it anyways
