DSC2 Questions

[AlexD]

Also, how do people dispose of the gralloch? I assume that it isn't buried as per the guidelines.

To answer your question:
After inspecting the mesenteric lymph nodes, just dump all the green matter out of sight of the public, and leave it for the foxes and corvids. I put the spleen there as well, as it should not be eaten (it is a lymphoid organ). If you are the middle of a moor, just leave it there. It will be gone by the morning.

Take the pluck home to your wife, along with the carcass. Deer liver and lung makes great haggis.

As some have pointed out, your questions mean you are not ready. To get yourself ready, join a stalker on a dozen stalks, or invite a stalker over to take some of your deer, and he will show you how to do it. If you gralloch a dozen deer in the month or two before doing the DSC-2, in front of someone who has done it 1000 times before, you won't embarrass yourself looking for a node, or making a mess of the carcass in front of the examiner. Most stalkers would jump at the opportunity for a DB to do all the gralloch for them, especially if they pay for the carcasses they mess up in the learning process.

Also, do both suspended and flat grallochs. I did all my grallochs suspended, so first gralloch in front of an examiner he stopped me as I was starting and said, "I can see you can do it suspended, please do your three grallochs flat as if it is on moorland."

We are all learning. I can't gralloch and skin a deer in 2½ minutes like the professional stalker does on Youtube, nor can I butcher as beautifully as a professional butcher does on Youtube, but keep learning and improving. Use the DSC-2 opportunity to learn to gralloch, well, then do the exam.

On head shots, avoid unless you are a very good shot and there is little wind. The brain of a deer is tiny, so is easy to miss and shoot the jaw off leaving a deer able to run as far as it wants, and die in agony. Had a deer the other day, with 70% of its brain gone from a straight head shot that dropped it on the spot, rendered it totally still within seconds, yet eye reflex worked 15 minutes later and it started kicking its legs as I approached so enough of a brain there to feel things and need a follow up shot. On DSC-2, aim for the heart. Be compassionate in all we do.

 

[terrier1]

Really,

A lot of very experienced deer stalkers on here you know. Can't you tell when some of them quote fallow hind and fallow stags. But it always makes me smile

 

[David Barker]

One stalk may be enough, but from memory there are 28 performance requirements in different categories.
It can be a bit of a challenge to get through them all in one outing.

If the performance criteria has not been met then a further stalk would be necessary. But most can be met with further questioning by the Assessor.

 

[Dunwaters]

If the performance criteria has not been met then a further stalk would be necessary. But most can be met with further questioning by the Assessor.

It’s up to the AW to provide the Assessor with the information, all of it, and frankly it’s a bit of a challenge in a single day on a single successful stalk. You don’t have to spend too much time reading through the criteria before you realise that.
Ideally you would meet the candidate at a respectable time, have a successful stalk on their grounds and have most of it wrapped up by lunchtime, but that’s not what happens.
You’re up at 0330 leave the house an hour later, meet up around 0600.
2 hours later you are still waiting for the shot, wound scenario, gralloch, larder work, paperwork and clean up.
You’ll be lucky to finish by midday and be home by 1400, knackered but not finished.
The one stalk scenario is achievable, it’s just not achievable every time you go out.

 

[kieran222]

As some have pointed out, your questions mean you are not ready.

FYI, I shoot between 50 to 100 deer per year, more than happy with my gralloch and inspection. The answers to my two questions provided by most people have been helpful and clarified that:

Although head shots aren't recommended they can be taken, that's up to the stalker.

Wrt the gralloch, that can be dealt with as I normally do and doesn't need to be buried.

I am surprised by some of the answers from people who have done the DSC2, some people give the impression that they are the only ones capable of doing it (yourself included).
I don't need to be told that I'm not ready by yourself or anyone else, at the age of 57 I feel I can make that assessment.

To the others who have provided non judgemental answers, thanks for your input.

 

[NoIDeer]

I have found this thread fascinating, I'm in a similar position to Kieran.

Take home lessons :-
Asking a question means your not ready, even if they are about the process of DSC2 an not how to do something.
Don't take a head shot because you will be trembling!
Take the pluck home to your wife.

Again thank you to those that answered the OPs questions , cleared a couple of points up for me as well.

 

[Muntybuck5803]

Please continue to ask all the questions you require. As we all should do. Just be prepared to sift through the less helpful comments from people who are intent on belittling others. There are good people on here.

 

[sikamalc]

FYI, I shoot between 50 to 100 deer per year, more than happy with my gralloch and inspection. The answers to my two questions provided by most people have been helpful and clarified that:

Although head shots aren't recommended they can be taken, that's up to the stalker.

Wrt the gralloch, that can be dealt with as I normally do and doesn't need to be buried.

I am surprised by some of the answers from people who have done the DSC2, some people give the impression that they are the only ones capable of doing it (yourself included).
I don't need to be told that I'm not ready by yourself or anyone else, at the age of 57 I feel I can make that assessment.

To the others who have provided non judgemental answers, thanks for your input.

If you shoot between 50 to 100 deer per year, you should be fine with that amount of experience.

Believe me, I have had clients who have claimed to have passed Level 2, in the past, and certainly would not be anywhere near ready to receive it from what I have seen of their abilities. In my opinion many past when it was the old paper port folio who were passed due to their mate being an AW. The system in my opinion had far too many holes in it. Nothing is fool proof, but I know for a fact some people passed having paid the right sum of money.

I have a number of candidates asking to arrange a Level 2 stalk with me, most years I get 3 to 5, sometimes more. In some instances they ask to do a mock stalk. They lead and undertake the whole stalk as one would, then if they ask me if they are ready, or did I see any problems, we undertake the real thing later in the day. In all honesty I have only had one candidate who I did not think was ready, in fact I refused to take him out again. The man was a complete idiot, who knew nothing, would not be advised, and in the larder could not name or find any of the lymph system, had already badly shot a Fallow doe, and then proceeded to spill all the guts back over the carcass, which made it impossible for the food chain. He also left the bladder in. Followed by not putting the carcass tag on, and when pointed out to him, even asked what he had to put on it. Even though it was a BDS tag, with the relevant information on it He also left without paying for the damaged carcass. This was the second time he and his son had done so.
Needless to say I told them never to return, and also told the Assessor he would not be coming back to stalk with me at anytime.

Its rare that I get anyone so incompetent. Normally most folk are great to be with and except help and advice.

I am sure you will be fine, as I said if you want to drop me a PM you can ask anything regarding your up coming Level 2. I wish you the best of luck. You'll be fine.

 

[kieran222]

If you shoot between 50 to 100 deer per year, you should be fine with that amount of experience.

Believe me, I have had clients who have claimed to have passed Level 2, in the past, and certainly would not be anywhere near ready to receive it from what I have seen of their abilities. In my opinion many past when it was the old paper port folio who were passed due to their mate being an AW. The system in my opinion had far too many holes in it. Nothing is fool proof, but I know for a fact some people passed having paid the right sum of money.

I have a number of candidates asking to arrange a Level 2 stalk with me, most years I get 3 to 5, sometimes more. In some instances they ask to do a mock stalk. They lead and undertake the whole stalk as one would, then if they ask me if they are ready, or did I see any problems, we undertake the real thing later in the day. In all honesty I have only had one candidate who I did not think was ready, in fact I refused to take him out again. The man was a complete idiot, who knew nothing, would not be advised, and in the larder could not name or find any of the lymph system, had already badly shot a Fallow doe, and then proceeded to spill all the guts back over the carcass, which made it impossible for the food chain. He also left the bladder in. Followed by not putting the carcass tag on, and when pointed out to him, even asked what he had to put on it. Even though it was a BDS tag, with the relevant information on it He also left without paying for the damaged carcass. This was the second time he and his son had done so.
Needless to say I told them never to return, and also told the Assessor he would not be coming back to stalk with me at anytime.

Its rare that I get anyone so incompetent. Normally most folk are great to be with and except help and advice.

I am sure you will be fine, as I said if you want to drop me a PM you can ask anything regarding your up coming Level 2. I wish you the best of luck. You'll be fine.

Cheers, thanks for the offer.

 

[Alrichie]

I have been stalking now for coming up to 3 years after passing my DSC1. However, have been shooting rifles for many many year and now mid 50s. I have been involved in culls on Roe and Muntjac and stalked Reds in Scotland. I am a proficient shot and taken head and neck shots. I am yet to take my DSC2 but hopefully later this year I will complete this as I feel I need to improve on the inspection of the carcass lymph nodes and more knife time required. For my DSC2 witness stalk I only plan on talking a boiler room shot as why add to the pressure. Best of luck on passing your DSC 2.

 

[AngusBellf]

If your asking questions your not ready.

Seems a tad harsh. Appears a relevant question.

 

[AMoorlen]

As

I have finally decided to do the DSC2 as I got a forestry grant but have a few questions.

Reading the documentation it says that head shots aren't recommended (not unusual) but later says that if a head shot is taken then the node inspection will factor this in. Has anyone done their DSC2 and taken a head shot? Was there any issues. I don't need advice on head shooting and it's ethics, just an answer to the question asked.

Also, how do people dispose of the gralloch? I assume that it isn't buried as per the guidelines.

For the gralloch I just had to find a spot where public wouldn't stumble across it. Ended up in a hedge like it normally does.

 

[Essex stalker]

I have finally decided to do the DSC2 as I got a forestry grant but have a few questions.

Reading the documentation it says that head shots aren't recommended (not unusual) but later says that if a head shot is taken then the node inspection will factor this in. Has anyone done their DSC2 and taken a head shot? Was there any issues. I don't need advice on head shooting and it's ethics, just an answer to the question asked.

Also, how do people dispose of the gralloch? I assume that it isn't buried as per the guidelines.

I took a head shot for my DSC2 (It was one of the 3 stalks that you had to do back then.) It was a roe buck that had a very bad limp plus a broken antler and looked like it was suffering however I couldn't get a clear heart and lung shot because of brambles and cover, after stalking it for a while it stopped with its head above the cover so I took the shot.
I had a call from my assessor after I had submitted my portfolio asking why I had taken a head shot, I explained why and he said, that seams reasonable , he then asked me a number of questions about why head shots should be avoided etc and what can go wrong. I gave him all the normal answers after which he asked me "based on all the issues I mentioned why did I feel confident to take the head shot. I simply said that I regularly go to a range and knew I was very capable and confident at that range of putting the bullet in the right place. he said that's fair enough and I did the correct thing. DSC2 came in the post a couple of weeks later.

 

[precision_stalker]

FYI, I shoot between 50 to 100 deer per year, more than happy with my gralloch and inspection. The answers to my two questions provided by most people have been helpful and clarified that:

Although head shots aren't recommended they can be taken, that's up to the stalker.

Wrt the gralloch, that can be dealt with as I normally do and doesn't need to be buried.

I am surprised by some of the answers from people who have done the DSC2, some people give the impression that they are the only ones capable of doing it (yourself included).
I don't need to be told that I'm not ready by yourself or anyone else, at the age of 57 I feel I can make that assessment.

To the others who have provided non judgemental answers, thanks for your input.

If you’re doing that sort of numbers, you will be fine. I don’t take that many and I breezed through the lvl2 when I did mine and I was fairly new to stalking. As long as you can show you know what you are doing, what to look out for, and can sort a carcass out hygienically to put in the food chain, you will be fine.

Like others have said, if you take a head shot / neck shot because that’s all that’s on offer, so be it. As long as you can show your understanding why it’s not the optimal shot, you shouldn’t have any issues.

You just have to ignore the naysayers / keyboard worriers who think they know everything or just like to pick fault on others!

Good luck.

 

[precision_stalker]

I have been stalking now for coming up to 3 years after passing my DSC1. However, have been shooting rifles for many many year and now mid 50s. I have been involved in culls on Roe and Muntjac and stalked Reds in Scotland. I am a proficient shot and taken head and neck shots. I am yet to take my DSC2 but hopefully later this year I will complete this as I feel I need to improve on the inspection of the carcass lymph nodes and more knife time required. For my DSC2 witness stalk I only plan on talking a boiler room shot as why add to the pressure. Best of luck on passing your DSC 2.

Everyone is differant but the best way I found to master the gralloching & inspection other than keep practicing, was to give a running commentary whilst I was going through the process. I would detail each stage, explain what and why I was doing it, what I was looking for and if something was found, how I would deal with it.

By following the same process every time becomes second nature and you eventually don’t think about it.

 

[Mr. Gain]

If your asking questions your not ready.

Congratulations. You win the prize for the least helpful contribution on a forum I've read this year. Award yourself extra "me" points.

 

[User00057]

If your asking questions your not ready.

Answers like this are better just left in your head I think. They don’t bring any help to the thread.

 

[The Tartan Torpedo]

When I was getting ready, and during my AW stalk, I would have never dreamed of taking a head shot, not that I am saying anything to the contrary about taking one. As already mentioned above, the pressure is on and regardless of previous experience nerves tend to take over, so for me I played it safe. My AW was brilliant he absolutely went out of his way to make me as relaxed as possible, his question technique was on the ball, again under test conditions you can get brain fog and he gave me prompts when required. Same for when I got the phone call, the guy was good again we chatted for a wee bit prior to the questions and that settled me. What I would say is I was probably more nervous about the second part as I got the call out of the blue and when into it. Everything in this life is personality driven as far as I am concerned, and these things are designed to be passed not failed, good luck pal. TP

 

[75]

Has anyone done their DSC2 and taken a head shot? Was there any issues. I don't need advice on head shooting and it's ethics, just an answer to the question asked.

Under the old scheme (3 stalks), one of mine was a high neck. I was prone on a bipod at 35 yards and had an opportunity to signal to my well know assessor whether I could head shoot it (his ground, paid stalk). He indicated I couldn't but neck was fine.

I dropped it and he insisted on writing it up as a chest shot. ****ed me right off and undermined the whole process for me.

 

[25 Sharps]

If your asking questions your not ready.

If you don’t know the difference between you’re and your, you’re not ready