Electric Car Debate

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On street charging. Two of the founders are friends of mine. They are probably very disappointed that I drive a truck and have no interest in getting an EV.

We use this system: there has been a trial of it in our borough, and now the council are planning to keep it.
It is an utterly excellent system: charges at 22KwH, so can recharge even a big battery overnight, and each bank of charge sites is about 70m long, so lots of availability. And the customer support is superb: they have even phoned us up to check if there are any problems with a charge.
It has converted me to EVs.

 

[Feugh]

We use this system: there has been a trial of it in our borough, and now the council are planning to keep it.
It is an utterly excellent system: charges at 22KwH, so can recharge even a big battery overnight, and each bank of charge sites is about 70m long, so lots of availability. And the customer support is superb: they have even phoned us up to check if there are any problems with a charge.
It has converted me to EVs.

Good to hear. I’ll pass your feedback on to my friends in Trojan.

 

[Freeforester]

Meanwhile, a few pretty inconvenient obstacles that may cause hiccups along the way to the ‘transition’:




At least we are aware of how and where this will go, if not precisely when, but it seems to be looming into view.

 

[markj1]

Meanwhile, a few pretty inconvenient obstacles that may cause hiccups along the way to the ‘transition’:




At least we are aware of how and where this will go, if not precisely when, but it seems to be looming into view.

Yes, this will be long, expensive, and complicated...

EVs are the easy part, but even when we have all converted to EVs the overall effect on global CO2 emissions will be minimal.

On the plus side, EVs are zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles, so at least we'll all soon be breathing cleaner and healthier air, which is good news, especially for city dwellers.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Yes, this will be long, expensive, and complicated...

EVs are the easy part, but even when we have all converted to EVs the overall effect on global CO2 emissions will be minimal.

On the plus side, EVs are zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles, so at least we'll all soon be breathing cleaner and healthier air, which is good news, especially for city dwellers.

If you can travel anywhere.
As EVs are heavier than ice vehicles means roads will need to be resurfaced more often as well as having to replace tyres more often due to the torque when accelerating or braking.

Wonder when the government will caughten on that they will need to up the road tax on EVs due to the loss of fuel tax.
Possibly the catalyst for pay by the mile taxation.

 

[markj1]

If you can travel anywhere.
As EVs are heavier than ice vehicles means roads will need to be resurfaced more often as well as having to replace tyres more often due to the torque when accelerating or braking.

Wonder when the government will caughten on that they will need to up the road tax on EVs due to the loss of fuel tax.
Possibly the catalyst for pay by the mile taxation.

I actually agree with that, and I drive an EV...

My EV is a standard-size car, and yet at 1.9t weighs almost as much as a Range Rover or a 130 TD4...

I think that taxing by weight makes sense. This will mean that EVs, as well most large 4x4 SUVs, vans, pick-up trucks etc, will pay more, and that's fair.

To clarify, I am currently enjoying many tax exemptions, but if I'm being honest then I have to say that I don't understand why these should be in place. For example, I live in London, but I don't pay Congestion Charge - why? My EV takes as much road space as any other car. Etc.

Again, I have no issues with taxation being applied fairly, even if it means that personally I'll be paying more than I do today.

 

[markj1]

As for pay-per-mile, I am all for that as well. We can apply this using ANPR cameras. Those people who insist on commuting to work in their private cars through congested city centres during rush hour, should pay through their nose. Anyone travelling along rural roads in the countryside should be able to do so for next to nothing.

 

[AGR]

Wouldn't it be just great if a British company could manufacture & market conversions for ICE engines, or replacement/exchange units, that could go into existing cars? - a hydrogen powered Td5 or Tdv6 for example or even a V8! (yes I drive a LR & I know other 4x4s are available & of course this equally applies to Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Jimnys, etc - in fact Toyota already make a hydrogen powered car I believe).

I'd happily change the engine in my D2 for a hydrogen one but no way would I spend out on getting an electric conversion. Yes the hydrogen infrastructure is non existent at the moment but electric charging is way behind the curve too so both need significant investment & it'd be a lot easier to get retailers to invest in hydrogen filling stations than getting local authorities and energy companies to install EV charging in public car parks!

Won't need to be straight hydrogen, ammonia is looking good for the next fuel, it contains a lot of hydrogen I read.

 

[markj1]

Wouldn't it be just great if a British company could manufacture & market conversions for ICE engines, or replacement/exchange units, that could go into existing cars? - a hydrogen powered Td5 or Tdv6 for example or even a V8! (yes I drive a LR & I know other 4x4s are available & of course this equally applies to Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Jimnys, etc - in fact Toyota already make a hydrogen powered car I believe).

I'd happily change the engine in my D2 for a hydrogen one but no way would I spend out on getting an electric conversion. Yes the hydrogen infrastructure is non existent at the moment but electric charging is way behind the curve too so both need significant investment & it'd be a lot easier to get retailers to invest in hydrogen filling stations than getting local authorities and energy companies to install EV charging in public car parks!

I think that part of the issue is weight.... these things have a separate chassis and weigh well over 2t. The name of the game now is efficiency.

 

[Donkey Basher]

I think that part of the issue is weight.... these things have a separate chassis and weigh well over 2t. The name of the game now is efficiency.

You’re missing the point though. These cars already exist so there’s no additional carbon footprint involved like there would be building a new replacement or in decommissioning them.

As for efficiency, that’s great for fossil fuel burning cars but does it really apply to a hydrogen (or ammonia) burning car that doesn’t have to be efficient because it is not trying to burn less fuel so that it puts out less emissions?

And, as has already been mentioned, my V8 Disco doesn’t weigh that much more than a normal sized EV anyway - probably less than a similar sized hybrid or full electric.

 

[Freeforester]

Yes, this will be long, expensive, and complicated...

EVs are the easy part, but even when we have all converted to EVs the overall effect on global CO2 emissions will be minimal.

On the plus side, EVs are zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles, so at least we'll all soon be breathing cleaner and healthier air, which is good news, especially for city dwellers.

I think if you watch/rewatch Simon Michaux’s presentation you’ll realise he is telling us there isn’t sufficient materials to achieve this, and most certainly not globally, and nor do I imagine the rest of the world are going to just stand back and allow GB plc to have first dibs on all the minerals required in order to enable everyone to buy an EV (equivalent to total global supply of some of the rare Earth minerals), let alone provide the actual electricity to run them all. That aside, how many cars stop for refuelling on a motorway run? How long does that take in terms of time per vehicle? How many charge ports per service station would be needed to achieve a reasonable throughput? Ever waited a couple of minutes for a petrol pump to become available? Or is it that such journeys are to be curtailed/prohibited?

Apropos motorways, and generally speaking, most roads are still tarred, a product derived from the dregs of a distilled barrel of oil, once the lighter distillates, including both petrol and diesel as well as kerosene for aviation fuel etc are removed. The Petrol and Diesel are major tax earners for the treasury for the government of the day, in a way that electricity is not; is government going to pour these away or flare them off, without taking their erstwhile tax receipts out of the barrel? If they are, what about suggesting the means of making up the shortfall - pay per mile? Here was me thinking that they’re rather keener to control inflation, but I digress: the thrust of Michaux’s presentation is that the proposed ‘transition’ just isn’t going to work out as is currently envisaged, and he has presented his data and evidence to sufficient governments around the planet and found to be credible to the extent that the ‘leaders’ he meets with usually end up asking him ‘what are we going to do?’!

Enjoy the interlude, it may be relatively brief!

Oh, and Profs Happer and van Wijngaarden at Princeton have conclusively proven that co2 does not drive global warming, see below, it rather renders the whole transition exercise along with ‘replaceable’ energy sources (whiles mistakenly referred to as ‘renewables’ - the wind and sunlight are renewable, but the hardware trying to harness these sources of energy aren’t) pretty pointless, as Michaux also suggests; the sooner we emulate the Chinese (who themselves are copying and improving upon the pioneering work of the Americans of the early nineteen seventies) and get busy with modular molten salt thorium reactors the easier it’s going to be to keep the lights burning, and meet the ever growing energy demands.

 

[markj1]

I don't think that EVs will solve our CO2 issues (regardless of whether we have an issue or not).

I am in favour of EVs for one simple reason, and that's zero-exhaust-emissions. Living in London this will make a difference for me. And I appreciate that for those living in rural areas it will make little difference to their air quality.

As for the planet? Fewer private cars and more use of public transport sounds sensible, especially for city dwellers. Again, people living outside of major cities will need private cars, obviously.

In the meantime, zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles sounds like a good idea, as far as our lungs and the lungs of our children are concerned. But I don't know how to save the planet... that's a separate issue.

 

[John Gryphon]

It has converted me to EVs.

As for places that are huge in comparison the uptake simply wont (cant ) happen. See below.

Yes, this will be long, expensive, and complicated...

As is diesel. Mate knocked over a couple of Buff up north a few weeks ago and we had another chat today about his trip. Fuel alone from Melbourne to Secret Station up north and return plus the k`s whilst up north amounted to $4000. Landcruiser wagon towing a 4wd camper trailer chewed through it combined with outback prices. EV`s wont cut the mustard out in the big country.

he got pist off when I kept referring to his buff bulls as 'cows' lol.

 

[Smellydog]

Saving the planet hey....

I had four new tyres last week.
I asked the fitter what's the latest on recycling old tyres?
Apparently, I was told, India is buying them all.
I asked what for?
He said " to burn in power stations".

It's a fluking joke this saving the planet lark.

 

[Liveonce]

Think I will wait awhile before buying one, bbc news today.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I don't think that EVs will solve our CO2 issues (regardless of whether we have an issue or not).

I am in favour of EVs for one simple reason, and that's zero-exhaust-emissions. Living in London this will make a difference for me. And I appreciate that for those living in rural areas it will make little difference to their air quality.

As for the planet? Fewer private cars and more use of public transport sounds sensible, especially for city dwellers. Again, people living outside of major cities will need private cars, obviously.

In the meantime, zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles sounds like a good idea, as far as our lungs and the lungs of our children are concerned. But I don't know how to save the planet... that's a separate issue.

I am living well outside of any major city and when any of the farmers tractors pass by you have to hold your breath, are there any emission controls on these old clunkers?

 

[LuckyEddie]

Think I will wait awhile before buying one, bbc news today.

Especially one that’s had the battery replaced recently as was part of this report.

 

[Freeforester]

”Pop! Goes the EV”

 

[Bowland blades]

Put the cash into developing clean Hydrogen! EV takes too long to charge and the darn things dont last long enough to pay the carbon cost of its build . Realistically IF we wanted to change vehicles for the better we would build them to be repaired and kept . Heck we haven't even a good plan to dispose of EV fuel cells .
people are so ill informed about our power system of generation . Wind power cannot be stored and the wind strength needs to be capable of a narrow frequency to even feed the grid - So dont think wow when the turbines are spinning .
Our power system needs to come on to meet various peak demand times and ramp down at low demand . What to we need to do to fix that ? Pray ?

 

[Freeforester]

Put the cash into developing clean Hydrogen! EV takes too long to charge and the darn things dont last long enough to pay the carbon cost of its build . Realistically IF we wanted to change vehicles for the better we would build them to be repaired and kept . Heck we haven't even a good plan to dispose of EV fuel cells .
people are so ill informed about our power system of generation . Wind power cannot be stored and the wind strength needs to be capable of a narrow frequency to even feed the grid - So dont think wow when the turbines are spinning .
Our power system needs to come on to meet various peak demand times and ramp down at low demand . What to we need to do to fix that ? Pray ?

Far too difficult to contain hydrogen for any length of time in a cost effective manner, the pressures for use are a bit of a ‘thing’. And no need to reduce co2 anyway, it’s a scam. A very lucrative one!