Electrochemical Machining/Erosion for rifling a barrel

[Seanpaul]

Hi

Just wondering whether anyone has had any experience with Electrochemical erosion for making rifling. A few Itialian companies now seem to be using the technology although the idea has been around for a long time. Some links below.

Rifling a Barrel in the Bathroom using Electrochemical Machining

Oblivion (Oblivion)

Within the Sabatti Elite line of products, the new Oblivion rifle is a closed-action rifle designed specifically for F-Class competition shooting at the highest levels. The heart of the Oblivion is the tried-and-tested Blizzard action, here mounted on a single-shot closed action, further...

www.sabatti.it

I wondered if it was being used in the UK as it sounds like a good option for those that want to move away from relying on others (providing they have the right paperwork!).

Thanks

Sean

 

[Jager SA]

Hi

Just wondering whether anyone has had any experience with Electrochemical erosion for making rifling. A few Itialian companies now seem to be using the technology although the idea has been around for a long time. Some links below.

Rifling a Barrel in the Bathroom using Electrochemical Machining

Oblivion (Oblivion)

Within the Sabatti Elite line of products, the new Oblivion rifle is a closed-action rifle designed specifically for F-Class competition shooting at the highest levels. The heart of the Oblivion is the tried-and-tested Blizzard action, here mounted on a single-shot closed action, further...

www.sabatti.it

I wondered if it was being used in the UK as it sounds like a good option for those that want to move away from relying on others (providing they have the right paperwork!).

Thanks

Sean

Pendragon Precision offer ECM barrels, I have fitted quite a few now and there is a noticeable difference over cut barrels, better velocity/accuracy, much easier cleaning and better barrel life. Defiantly the way forward for barrel manufacturing.

 

[viking90]

Pendragon precision make 6mm caliber ecm barrels but if he hasn't got one on the shelf be prepared for a wait

 

[Jager SA]

Pendragon precision make 6mm caliber ecm barrels but if he hasn't got one on the shelf be prepared for a wait

Yes lengthy delays currenty.

 

[Seanpaul]

Thanks both. In terms of the speed of the process is it comparable to traditional methods? I put an article together on project Grayburn (replacement of the SA80) last year and the issue the UK seems to have is mass production of barrel's and chrome lining in particular. FN have chromium capabilities and HK possibly do.

 

[Jager SA]

Thanks both. In terms of the speed of the process is it comparable to traditional methods? I've put an article together on project Grayburn (replacement of the SA80) last year and the issue the UK seems to have is mass production of barrel's and chrome lining in particular. FN have chromium capabilities and HK possibly do.

Not sure on speed of the process but from what I understand it uses cathode and anode at the atomic level, which are specifically made for each calibre meaning the process is stress free, which can only be a positive in barrel making. I would like chrome lined barrels also that would be a nice addition to offer.

 

[Utectok]

Apparently the surface is so slick they have to add texture to shoot well. Also gain twist is easy to cut. In another few years all barrels will be made this way I recon?

 

[Utectok]

 

[Seanpaul]

Apparently the surface is so slick they have to add texture to shoot well. Also gain twist is easy to cut. In another few years all barrels will be made this way I recon?

Very intersting. I can see why this would work well in the US in particualr as folk could build from scratch with 3D printing non-pressure bearing components. Alas not something for us in the UK unless you are an RFD. Military applications seem ideal on the progressive rifling particualry with high pressure catridges.

 

[Jager SA]

Apparently the surface is so slick they have to add texture to shoot well. Also gain twist is easy to cut. In another few years all barrels will be made this way I recon?

Gain twist or transitional twist, now we are talking, I have fitted some gain twist barrels over the years and they make a difference. There is a lot less initial torque imparted on the projectile in a gain twist, say 1-8 to 1-7 so less deforming. Much like the Paragon shotgun barrel that utilises the rifling a few inches from the muzzle. I think ECM is the way forward for sure.

 

[Seanpaul]

Gain twist or transitional twist, now we are talking, I have fitted some gain twist barrels over the years and they make a difference. There is a lot less initial torque imparted on the projectile in a gain twist, say 1-8 to 1-7 so less deforming. Much like the Paragon shotgun barrel that utilises the rifling a few inches from the muzzle. I think ECM is the way forward for sure.

I wonder if it would help with the XM8/M7 in 6.8x51 mm? Reports are that the XM8 (carbine M7) has issues already with excess chamber pressures and barrel wear

 

[viking90]

TThe sov

I wonder if it would help with the XM8/M7 in 6.8x51 mm? Reports are that the XM8 (carbine M7) has issues already with excess chamber pressures and barrel wear

The soviets used chrome lined ECM barrels back in the 60s and 70s but at some point at the end of the 70s early 80s Izhmash swapped to hammer forged chrome lined. I can only assume any accuracy gain was outweighed by the harder wearing hammer forged barrel (assuming both methods use chromoly). Maybe costs factored into it but hammer forging isnt cheap to set up initially.

 

[Seanpaul]

TThe sov

The soviets used chrome lined ECM barrels back in the 60s and 70s but at some point at the end of the 70s early 80s Izhmash swapped to hammer forged chrome lined. I can only assume any accuracy gain was outweighed by the harder wearing hammer forged barrel (assuming both methods use chromoly). Maybe costs factored into it but hammer forging isnt cheap to set up initially.

Thanks for this

 

[Jager SA]

TThe sov

The soviets used chrome lined ECM barrels back in the 60s and 70s but at some point at the end of the 70s early 80s Izhmash swapped to hammer forged chrome lined. I can only assume any accuracy gain was outweighed by the harder wearing hammer forged barrel (assuming both methods use chromoly). Maybe costs factored into it but hammer forging isnt cheap to set up initially.

This is where the 5R comes from, the R stands for "Russian" and was designed to make the cleaning of barrels easier. It was then utilised by, I believe Boots Obermeyer as a commercial offering...

 

[Seanpaul]

This is where the 5R comes from, the R stands for "Russian" and was designed to make the cleaning of barrels easier. It was then utilised by, I believe Boots Obermeyer as a commercial offering...

Jeka Global are working on HV smooth bore 12.7 mm ammunition for man-portable 'cannons'. Perhaps smooth bore is the future, for the military at least!

 

[Jager SA]

Jeka Global are working on HV smooth bore 12.7 mm ammunition for man-portable 'cannons'. Perhaps smooth bore is the future, for the military at least!

Its a very interesting subject, groove, number of grooves and twist for such applications i'm sure are key to the success of the end result.

 

[Jager SA]

Saw this a few months ago when I spoke to McGowen, they make good barrels.

 

[Brad93]

This is basically die sinking EDM. Horrendously slow and expensive. Add in the fact that the die wears out due to electron erosion. How quickly I can't say, because I have not been involved in that side of machining but as it's rifling and you'll need to maintain a depth, maybe they go through with a old die first then chuck a new one through to make sure the rifling is nice and sharp to the correct depth.

Won't be cheap and certainly won't be some wonder technology to replace cut rifling

 

[Bavarianbrit]

This is basically die sinking EDM. Horrendously slow and expensive. Add in the fact that the die wears out due to electron erosion. How quickly I can't say, because I have not been involved in that side of machining but as it's rifling and you'll need to maintain a depth, maybe they go through with a old die first then chuck a new one through to make sure the rifling is nice and sharp to the correct depth.

Won't be cheap and certainly won't be some wonder technology to replace cut rifling

I have watched it in process (slow) and that was for for large plastic injection moulding tools which I was involved with, they the toolmakers had to have a few of the carbon shapes ready as they as you say wear away.
How a carbon pin 22-28 inches long can be held to the centre axis of a tiny bored hole also beats me.

 

[Utectok]