Enlarged node under skin front shoulder.

[25 Sharps]

Just skinned one of the bucks I Was lucky enough to pick up this morning.

Deer was acting fine and behaving normally prior to shot, he has been fighting with another buck in the area and had what I think was one small puncture would at the base of an ear but looked to be healing fine.

Inspection on gralloch threw up nothing of real concern, tips of the lungs were a bit light, nodes that hadn’t been destroyed all normal, a couple of red patches on one retro pharyngeal but no swelling, lumps etc.

got home and skimmed him, on pulling back the skin around front shoulders there was a very swollen node that must sit between the shoulder and rib cage but came away with the skin. This was quite enlarged, thought it was a tumour at first As never really noted these nodes before but found another on opposite side.

Difficult to photo but about 1.5” long 3/4” round. Th one one the other side (Not attached on photo) was smaller but almost seemed to be in 2 parts. As I say never really noticed these before.

thoughts please?




Last photo is other side

 

[25 Sharps]

@Buchan?

 

[sh1kar]

antler injury from last years rut? Any sign of a healed wound in the skin over it?

S

 

[zambezi]

I had something similar once. Left shoulder lymph node a bit bigger than others. The lower limb had what looked like a long since healed fracture above the ankle. All other parts of animal healthy. The beastie went in the freezer.

An experienced chap at the time told me that it was not uncommon. Like us, if we get an infection in a limb, say the hand, then the armpit lymph works harder to fight localised infection and will enlarge.

Apparently there are lymph nodes all over the animal. There are a myriad little red lymph nodes along the spine. Haemolymphs? I forget name now. But those rarely swell even in unwell animals.

 

[NickJ]

I would say if all other LN's are OK it is highly likely that the swollen LN is due to the injury on it's neck.

I had a similar but more progressed case a few years back, the same - the axillary or 'arm pit' node on a roe buck was enlarged and pustular. All other LN's were OK and it had a (probably fence) injury on its brisket. Buchan from this site (who is a vet) thought then it was caused by the mechanical injury rather than disease (see photos.) I binned the front end but eat the saddle and haunches.

One thing with yours though, if it came away with the skin I'm not 100% sure it is a LN and maybe some sort of callousing from an old injury as mentioned above or a tumour as you suspected.

 

[Buchan]

If all other nodes are fine, beast was fine and the carcass has set, there should be no problem. It's probably form an injury to the limb and yes, another buck would be high on the list. Odd to come away with the skin, but it coul dbe that's where the injury is

 

[25 Sharps]

If all other nodes are fine, beast was fine and the carcass has set, there should be no problem. It's probably form an injury to the limb and yes, another buck would be high on the list. Odd to come away with the skin, but it coul dbe that's where the injury is

Thanks for your response and to all the others

There was some cutting of muscle for it to come away with the skin to be fair. I couldn’t see any injury external but he had definitely been fighting as I saw them at it on the way home from a supply drop to mum and dad last week

can I ask what you mean by carcass had set?

 

[25 Sharps]

Thanks all

 

[Andyquadra]

can I ask what you mean by carcass had set?

rigor mortis?

 

[Buchan]

can I ask what you mean by carcass had set?

Did it get stiff? Oo err missus, no tittering at the back there.

In almost all cases when an animal dies, the actual tissues are still viable. As muscle can work on anerobic respiration (low oxygen) they continue to metabolise the glucose, but, they turn it into lactic acid instead of CO2. This is normally metabolised away once the exertion has stopped. Everyone will have experienced cramp - that's the same biochemistry as rigor mortis and causes a carcass to set - go stiff.
However, if the animal is sick, eg infection, then the carcass often won't set. It's a useful additional guide to meat hygiene.

As an aside it's the buildup of lactic acid in ruminant muscle that can kill captured animals - capture myopathy. It's exploited by wild dogs (and humans) by persistently following and chasing until the animal is knackered.

 

[Andyquadra]

Did it get stiff? Oo err missus, no tittering at the back there.

In almost all cases when an animal dies, the actual tissues are still viable. As muscle can work on anerobic respiration (low oxygen) they continue to metabolise the glucose, but, they turn it into lactic acid instead of CO2. This is normally metabolised away once the exertion has stopped. Everyone will have experienced cramp - that's the same biochemistry as rigor mortis and causes a carcass to set - go stiff.
However, if the animal is sick, eg infection, then the carcass often won't set. It's a useful additional guide to meat hygiene.

As an aside it's the buildup of lactic acid in ruminant muscle that can kill captured animals - capture myopathy. It's exploited by wild dogs (and humans) by persistently following and chasing until the animal is knackered.

Every day's a school day

 

[25 Sharps]

Did it get stiff? Oo err missus, no tittering at the back there.

In almost all cases when an animal dies, the actual tissues are still viable. As muscle can work on anerobic respiration (low oxygen) they continue to metabolise the glucose, but, they turn it into lactic acid instead of CO2. This is normally metabolised away once the exertion has stopped. Everyone will have experienced cramp - that's the same biochemistry as rigor mortis and causes a carcass to set - go stiff.
However, if the animal is sick, eg infection, then the carcass often won't set. It's a useful additional guide to meat hygiene.

As an aside it's the buildup of lactic acid in ruminant muscle that can kill captured animals - capture myopathy. It's exploited by wild dogs (and humans) by persistently following and chasing until the animal is knackered.

That’s very handy to know, yes, he held his horizontal position completely when lifted out of the tub do very stiff!

 

[25 Sharps]

butchered and in the freezer now, will eat this one well done rather than rare just to be doubly sure!