Expander Mandrel / Neck Lube Options

[Cottis]

That is the larger pot. I use smaller shot for the .222rem and larger for everything else. I don't dip and swirl or twist or anything. I just literally dip vertically 3-4 times for each case.

 

[sikadog]

I just resize chamfer inside and outside and push the bullet in no faffing about. It's not failed me for 30 years.

 

[Jamie020]

I basically use standard FL dies (forster and redding) with the expander balls removed as they are horrible and I dislike the graunchy feeling when pulling them back through. It just strikes me as needing too much pressure which i cannot see being good for pushing and pulling the necks about. I don't use any bushings. Just FL dies to bump the shoulder back 2 thou without the expander ball and then use an expander die and relevant mandrel to size them back up to desired size and neck tension.

The process of forcing that mandrel in and less so, out, of the case neck is much less severe force wise which I can feel as I operate the press, than if I was using the expander balls supplied with the FL dies.

My process is - I decap all cases first with universal decapper, then I anneal, then FL size without expander ball and without cleaning the cases but I make sure they are free from obvious debris or dirt. I then clean them in the ultrasonic cleaner to clean the internals and the primer pockets and to remove resizing lube (I use that cheapo Lee stuff) and then I use the expander mandrel to size necks up before chamfer/deburr and then on to priming, charging and seating bullets.

The process for lubing the inside of case necks prior to using the expander mandrel die, is to dip maybe 3-4 times in the graphite covered shot and then on to the press. I run the mandrel through each twice to ensure some sort of uniformity but I am generally annealing every firing, so using the mandrel and seating bullets has a very very consistent feel to it. That might help you as you effectively have softer brass to work with and it also provides longer life for your cases (apologies if you do anneal, I didn't read back through the thread entirely)

I recently helped a mate load up a crapton of 7mmRM cartridges. His reloading process is somewhat primitive, so I annealed all the cases for him and then got him to feel how the seating and mandrels felt in effectively virgin brass. He was amazed how soft it felt. You also get much more consistent measurements COAL seating wise, as the material has the same amount of give or friction as the next case. Unannealed brass which has been fired a coupla three time or more will display a lack of consistency in this regard. You can feel it on the press.

I don't measure my neck internals to see how much work the mandrel is doing. I am loading for .222rem, .243win, 6.5CM and 7mmRM. I work on the basis that if something works, it aint stupid. I did ponder if you had a FL die that was oversizing the necks down but you say there is a 6 thou sizing difference between sized down necks and then opening them back up. That does not sound excessive to me at all. I am going to measure a sized down neck in a mo on a piece of brass and will report.

So in a nutshell, I don't know. Sounds to me like you are doing it right. If you are not annealing and are working with heavily work hardened brass, that might explain it?

Right, here are some pics to show you my tiny lube pot. I very rarely top this up with graphite. A tiny amount goes a long way. You can also see the discolouration of the mandrels. The tin or titanium one (don't ask, I had to sell a kidney to buy that one as the standard version was out of stock) seems to hold less graphite but it still works the same. That discolouration is graphite and it builds up and assists the next case that goes through the die. I still dip every single case. The other picture shows you my clean finger tip and then what it looks like if I very very lightly press it againt the graphite covered shot. I have never cleaned or done anything to those mandrels. They are just stored in a dry, clean place.

On to the measurements. Just measured the internal diameter of a 7mmRM case that has been sized down using a FL die without expander but is yet to be sized back up with a mandrel. It is 0.272" and the mandrel would be 0.283" so that is being worked by 10 thou or so which is more than your 6 thou. I don't think either of those are out of kilter per se.

Best of luck

This post was really helpful, thank you.

It wasn’t mentioned previously but I am annealing with an AMP after each firing.

Our reloading method is very similar, except I tend to clean cases after depriming and before annealing to ensure no crud gets in the annealer, then wipe the lube off cases after FL sizing. I’m also uniforming primer pockets.

The photos are really helpful and the shot looks well coated in graphite. I’m going to try this method rather than use the Redding media that came in the pot, which doesn’t look as well coated. The graphite in my pot almost looks clumpy in comparison.

Another thing I’ve noticed, I’ve always cleaned the mandrels after I’ve finished a reloading session. I’ll leave them next time and as the graphite builds up hopefully that’ll also make the process smoother.

Appreciate the effort you’ve gone to on that post

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

This post was really helpful, thank you.

It wasn’t mentioned previously but I am annealing with an AMP after each firing.

Our reloading method is very similar, except I tend to clean cases after depriming and before annealing to ensure no crud gets in the annealer, then wipe the lube off cases after FL sizing. I’m also uniforming primer pockets.

The photos are really helpful and the shot looks well coated in graphite. I’m going to try this method rather than use the Redding media that came in the pot, which doesn’t look as well coated. The graphite in my pot almost looks clumpy in comparison.

Another thing I’ve noticed, I’ve always cleaned the mandrels after I’ve finished a reloading session. I’ll leave them next time and as the graphite builds up hopefully that’ll also make the process smoother.

Appreciate the effort you’ve gone to on that post

I’ve used lock, or locksmith graphite in lead shot for years too…and there’s still plenty in the pot. Mine is by CK

Likewise, the finer the lead shot the better…. you’ll occasionally get a couple caught inside the neck but being lead they stand less chance of bending your decapping pin or rod if that’s still in your die.

cheers

fizz

 

[pasky]

I've been using ARC Ballistics mandrels for the last few years, both their original carbide and more recent coated versions and neither need any lube, and are buttery smooth. Various dealers now selling them, Spud, March Scopes, Wildcat etc. I would high recommend them to anyone.

 

[drone]

Back in 2018 I mixed 100 ml of liquid lanolin with 900 ml of isopropanol, I use a 25ml medicine dispensing cup with about 10 ml in it, dip open case neck in there then immediately invert it, rub the little mix around the whole exterior of the case and run it through the dies. There's still over half a litre in the bottle as in the early days I used to nearly fill the plastic cup and dump it at the end, now all the unused mix goes ack in the bottle.
To clean I use an old electric fryer basket pop the cases in and immerse them in hot water and fairy washing machine detergent and shake about to clean then rinse them thoroughly under running hot water.
They and the fryer basket then go in the oven for about half an hour at 140C the wife's never smelled anything untoward btw.
I bought 10 30 cal bronze brushes also 10 22 cal ditto and use an electric drill to polish the inside of the neck with them.
I load for 223, 22 Hi power, 3030 and 308, also 357 mag but that has a carbide resize die.
No problems at all.
The isopropanol (printers use it for cleaning print rollers) also cleans any crap off of the case exterior and my vibratory cleaner is redundant except for 357 stuff.
Bought the lanolin and isopropanol from amazon.

 

[kenbro]

Haha brilliant

He did say you’d laugh!
Ken.

 

[kenbro]

I’m looking to improve the consistency of my reloading process and wondering what others are using to lube the inside of case necks prior to using expander mandrels.

I’ve tried:
1) Dipping case necks into Redding’s imperial dry graphite with media
2) Cotton bud and a small amount of Redding’s imperial sizing wax
3) Hornady one shot

I’ve found option 2 the smoothest when expanding on the press but my concern is that it’s difficult to ensure each case neck is consistently lubed the same, as I’m seating after expanding without removing the lube.

Option 1 seems to better lube the outside of case necks and I’ve had some galling issues (brass adhering to the expander) using this method.

Let me know what works well for you?

I stick a case neck into Imperial Sizing Wax and twist back and forth a couple of times, then through a neck sizer sans button. I lube one like this but do the next 4 without further lubing.
Next I do the same lube 1 and mandrel that and 4 more until done.
As JCS; short time gentle wash in ultrasonic to finish.
Ken.
Ps. I think some go over board on lube usage.