Expanding versus disintegrating monolithic bullets

[hw101]

The correct answer here seems to depend on tolerance to two factors, degree of carcass damage and risk of runners. The two factors are largely exclusive of each other. If you use a very damaging bullet the run distance tends to be less but the carcass damage greater and vice versa. I have experienced gut penetration with Yew Tree and Virtus and also prefer the TTSX that holds together for this reason. My experience with Red and roe deer with the 6.5mm 120 grain TTSX is that the carcass is tidy but the run distance is greater. I still shoot Roe with the 6.5 but if reds are likely use the .30-06 in preference that largely mitigates the runners to an acceptable level.

Am I correct in thinking you also run a 7mm Rem mag with 120g TTSX?

 

[hw101]

THAC

Try them

They expand and do not in my experience fragment

Wound channel displays expansion characteristics

They are consistently accurate when a load is found

They perform (so far) as well as my revered GS custom HV bullets that I used exclusively for 20 plus years till supply became unobtainium

Does anyone know where 7mm THAC bullets can be found in the UK?

 

[Ronin]

Malmo guns Dolphinholme had them on the shelf when I was there last Friday

 

[Selous]

Am I correct in thinking you also run a 7mm Rem mag with 120g TTSX?

Correct, also the 130grain Yew Tree TLR for when I need especially long legs!

 

[bri2506]

THAC

Try them

They expand and do not in my experience fragment

Wound channel displays expansion characteristics

They are consistently accurate when a load is found

They perform (so far) as well as my revered GS custom HV bullets that I used exclusively for 20 plus years till supply became unobtainium

Have tried both weights of the thac in 6.5

 

[hw101]

Malmo guns Dolphinholme had them on the shelf when I was there last Friday

Very helpful - thank you.

 

[25 Sharps]

Interesting that you have had a similar experince. It is a bit dissapointing that the dealers wont take the carcasses as the bullets are doing what htey are designed to do and make smaller calibres very effective. I guess it begs the question of whether a larger diameter bullet is required or not? Sound like your experince is that non fragmenting copper in a 6.5 is fine? My experince in other countries is that a rule of thumb became .30 and above for mono bullets. interested to hear others views.

Use the 124 gr HP yew trees in my .280, the petals have never really caused an issue, generally going straight through.

 

[hw101]

Correct, also the 130grain Yew Tree TLR for when I need especially long legs!

I tried the 130 yew tree in 7 RSAUM. At almost 3300 fps it was very accurate but too explosive. I’ll try it on deer at 2800fps in my 7-08 as the load is very accurate and I hope not so dramatic.
So I’d be interested to hear of your experience in 7 rem mag if you don’t mind? I’m also interested to hear from Ronin (and grateful as well) about THAC bullets. Thanks both for any help.

 

[Ronin]

Have tried both weights of the thac in 6.5

Have only used 122 they have all been bang, thwack dead

Circa 3100 in 6.5/284

Sub half moa

Distance “near to quite far”

All single shot drt

Other brands have not been reliable with pass through or excess fragmentation (same bullet ) therefore in my head unreliable and where I shoot, I cannot afford lost animals due to logistical difficulties in tracking into an area that would be impossible to do so

 

[Selous]

I tried the 130 yew tree in 7 RSAUM. At almost 3300 fps it was very accurate but too explosive. I’ll try it on deer at 2800fps in my 7-08 as the load is very accurate and I hope not so dramatic.
So I’d be interested to hear of your experience in 7 rem mag if you don’t mind? I’m also interested to hear from Ronin (and grateful as well) about THAC bullets. Thanks both for any help.

I still use the 120g TTSX for deer under 250m and find it works very well. I have tried MV between 3250 and 3450fps and found the slower velocity loads to be equally or perhaps more effective inside 200m. I shot loads of Roe and Red deer with them over the years at 3250fps. For a while I pushed them much harder at 3450fps ish. The results were interesting as the effect was less dramatic below 150 yards with evidence of fragmentation/petal loss and multiple wound tracts. Further than 200m the visible effect on the animals seemed better and the exit wounds were bigger. I suspect that this was because of the rapid loss of petals after impact. I never retrieved a bullet other than the odd blue tip and perhaps a petal fragment here and there. I think in the 7mm Rem Mag that the 140g TTSX may be the optimal weight but I haven’t got round to trying it yet. I’m currently using the 30-06 a lot so am not using the 7RM as much as I used to.

 

[hw101]

Have only used 122 they have all been bang, thwack dead

Circa 3100 in 6.5/284

Sub half moa

Distance “near to quite far”

All single shot drt

Other brands have not been reliable with pass through or excess fragmentation (same bullet ) therefore in my head unreliable and where I shoot, I cannot afford lost animals due to logistical difficulties in tracking into an area that would be impossible to do so

Thanks!

 

[hw101]

I still use the 120g TTSX for deer under 250m and find it works very well. I have tried MV between 3250 and 3450fps and found the slower velocity loads to be equally or perhaps more effective inside 200m. I shot loads of Roe and Red deer with them over the years at 3250fps. For a while I pushed them much harder at 3450fps ish. The results were interesting as the effect was less dramatic below 150 yards with evidence of fragmentation/petal loss and multiple wound tracts. Further than 200m the visible effect on the animals seemed better and the exit wounds were bigger. I suspect that this was because of the rapid loss of petals after impact. I never retrieved a bullet other than the odd blue tip and perhaps a petal fragment here and there. I think in the 7mm Rem Mag that the 140g TTSX may be the optimal weight but I haven’t got round to trying it yet. I’m currently using the 30-06 a lot so am not using the 7RM as much as I used to.

Very interesting and helpful - thank you!

 

[Leec6.5]

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[Selous]

.

I can feel you tutting about the damned high velocity

 

[Leec6.5]

I can feel you tutting about the damned high velocity

No each to their own, I started and then had second thoughts, my views are well known, I can’t be arsed to keep running on!

I’m quite enjoying 145-150gn copper in the 7x57 excellent performance at mediocre speeds

 

[Selous]

No each to their own, I started and then had second thoughts, my views are well known, I can’t be arsed to keep running on!

I’m quite enjoying 145-150gn copper in the 7x57 excellent performance at mediocre speeds

That’s a classic calibre indeed !

 

[BWH]

Ronin, Interesting that you say the THAC bullets dont fragment in your experience as their web site says they are designed to fragment?

 

[Jagdmatch]

I think I have said on here before that copper performance needs to be 7mm and above. I have got a accurate load in .260 (127 gn LRX) which I think is doing just under 700m/s but some fails to stop on red hinds and calves at around 150m. Below is a 375 H&H exit on a warthog at 60m which shows good expansion . Also no runners on the Scottish deer.

 

[Leec6.5]

I think I have said on here before that copper performance needs to be 7mm and above. I have got an accurate load in .260 (127 gn LRX) which I think is doing just under 700m/s but some fails to stop on red hinds and calves at around 150m. Below is a 375 H&H exit on a warthog at 60m which shows good expansion . Also no runners on the Scottish deer.

They work fine in 6.5 and 270 I will assure you!

All depends on how you load them

 

[Ronin]

Ronin, Interesting that you say the THAC bullets dont fragment in your experience as their web site says they are designed to fragment?

Think that is down to translation / interpretation

I personally haven’t seen any evidence that these bullets fragment - in the way I understand fragmentation (blow up / burst : disintegrate) within the carcass causing severe internal damage

What I have seen is two times calibre expansion from entry into body cavity passing through internal organs and exiting with similar two times expansion wound

Ling / heart damage is a two times calibre sized cavity with some evidence of hydrolastic expansion of wound channel

I haven’t seen any bullet fragments on the floor of the larder or picked out any fragments under skin etc

so I believe they expand rather than fragment

This is from a fair number of carcasses so far at as I said before near (40 mtrs) to far which is open to personal interpretation in terms of skill set and ability

The above is all red / fallow and roe by the way

One of the “far” shots was a roe - again same wound characteristics

I trust these bullets