FAC air vs 12ft/lb?

[wildfowler.250]

Right folks, here’s a debate and I’m happy to hear cons as much as I am pro’s for a FAC airgun?

So to set the scene: I am looking at getting a .177 pcp to go alongside the usual .22lr/HMR etc. I’ve already got a .22 springer but would prefer something a little more refined.

Now the main use will be roost shooting woodies. With rare,( once or twice a year) rabbit outings. I was going to go for a standard pcp but whenever I’ve seen Mat Manning on theairgunshow shooting woodies - he goes for the FAC daystate.

Am I better off going FAC? And if so, what does your ticket application say? “FAC air” or “up to X ft/lbs”?

I know the resale value is terrible on these guns. And they actually seem to be more expensive new.
What I don’t want to do is spend 1k on a legal limit pcp and then wish that I could pluck for a FAC chest shot on a 40 yard woodie that’s swaying in the tree tops.

It may be the case that everyone says a standard .177 is fine. Or that FAC air is a waste of time. But I thought a bit more clout would be worthwhile so best asking.

I read somewhere in a similar debate someone had suggested .22 shorts as an intermediate but the thought of firing anything .22 rimfire up into the air sounds terrifying to be quite honest.

 

[enfieldspares]

I have a .177" BSA Scorpion T10 in non FAC 12 ft/lbs. It has however been regulated by Ratworks in Leicestershire and I'd say that a .177" will always benefit from being regulated (either made that way of later fitted). Roost shooting AFAIR involves shooting birds that have roosted and are sat sitting in the tree (unless you are "shooting flying" with a shotgun.

I use .177" Bisley Magnum a heavy for calibre 10 grain pellet as they are accurate, penetrate well and reasonably priced. In all my shooting I've always preferred what some would say are "heavy for calibre" projectiles over all others. So 150 grain in .270 WCF, 100 grain in the 6mm calibres and etc..

It's a tall tree indeed in the UK that is much over sixty to ninety feet tall and that's to its top not to the branches in which the pigeons will be sitting. So my question would be does the OP really need an air rifle that'll reach to seventy yards when his average shot isn't even going to me much over seventy feet but involve all the "faff" of the s1 FAC rules that will apply to the weapon?

I sometimes think that some internet influencers promote an FAC air rifle just to get one upmanship bragging rights when for most usages by mist people standard 12 ft/lbs would do. Yes rats at seventy yards might be different and crows at the same distance. But inside a barn shooting twenty yard rats or squirrels in trees at similar distance (and the OP's roosting pigeon) it isn't needed IMHO.

 

[B&W FOX]

. 177 on fac, that will go straight through.

There's a reason why .22 and .25 pellets for fac air rifles are heavy as they have the knock down power.
Roost shooting with an air rifle, you have to allow for quite alot of windage compensation up the top of trees.

I use a pcp .177 in my garden for magpie and squirrel, and use .22 fac pcp on the farm for everything else ie ferals, crows etc. but then I use .22rf for rats around the sheds.

It's just another tool for another job.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for the quick replies gents and I’ll reply properly shortly.

I should add that if it was FAC I’d got .22 instead of .177.

Standard pcp will be .177 if we go down that route

 

[Cottis]

I have .22 springer and .177 PCP. Springer is for fun and the odd ramble on close range rabbits sometimes in the summer. It is much more fun than the PCP but the PCP is scary accurate out to 50yds in low wind or benign conditions.

Zeroed at 30yds, it is only an inch drop if that at 40yds. Put a .177 pellet between the shoulder blades of a pigeon in a tree and it will fold on the spot. If you want a flapper, you can head or neck shoot if your rest is good enough at those distances. Shooting up in to trees needs different holds, but I would still use a standard air rifle for that range.

Unless you need FAC (and it sounds like you don't as you have rimfire covered) for stuff in the 50-80yd bracket I would say the .177 PCP would be great for your needs. It will probably shoot groups at 40yds that will be half the size of the groups you shoot at 30yds with your springer.

 

[WSSX]

In terms of FAC power, I wouldn't bother. Too much faff for the payoff. Undoubtedly situations where it's useful to some, but not for me - usually something else would work better at that point. Can always stalk closer with a sub-12 ft/lb gun if you have to use air

I was also looking at PCPs a while ago but was advised not to bother unless I was really into it - more to think about in terms of maintenance, charging etc. Spring gun is always ready to go if you've got a tin of pellets.

What is your springer? I have two Weihrauchs: a .22 HW77 and a .177 HW97K. I've put Tinbum drop-in tuning kits in them and they're super smooth and consistent and easier to shoot now. It's not hard to do, so something like that is possibly the cheapest option! A good place to start maybe.

Just my stream of consciousness thoughts...

 

[RJD]

I considered fac air recently but discarded the idea due to the need for all the pcp kit and it’s another slot chewed up in cabinet …. My .22 baikal springer that cost £80 and cheap hawke scope (£40 in sale as a weird reticle) cheerfully kills squirrels at 25M which is all I need it to do

 

[Rake Aboot]

I just went from 177 sub 12 pcp to an fac rated tx200 in .22
Horses for courses, but certainly no more faff or hassle
Especially in Scotland where you need a cert for sub 12 anyway.

I will say though the tx only runs about 18ft/lb or so.

If I was looking at 30 plus I’d likely just use the rimfire.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Look at .22 or .25 for fac air. I've got an FX Crown in .22 fac and if I need an air rifle it's the one I pick up every time. No difference in price new, but you can pick up cheap 2nd hand fac air rifles.
It will simply say on your ticket the caliber you opt for and fac air, no limit on the power you choose to use.
I shoot thousands of rats with mine, that's why I went .22 instead of .25, cheaper pellets. I have a slot for .25 but doubt I will bother, although if I had a .25 I would probably use it on the rabbits, maybe even hares when we trim the numbers up.

 

[mealiejimmy]

With a 177, you won't get much over 12ftlbs before the pellets try to go supersonic and spray all over the place
Given that air rifle pellets don't like going supersonic, you'll only get increased power by increasing pellet weight and that generally means larger calibres
.25 seems to be a happy medium for energy, shot count, pellet style, price and availability

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Tdes]

I have an evanix window city in .22 factory air, doing about 30ft lbs. I also have a Webley Axsor in .177 doing about 11ft lbs. Both are handy and suit different jobs, the fact .22 fills the gap nicely between the .177 sub 12 and the .22lr.

The .22 fac will give you the trajectory of the .177 sub 12, but with a lot more knock down power.

FYI, the evanix has a carbon fibre bottle up front, meaning a huge reservoir and good balance. Both rifles are a lot more accurate than I am, if I clamp them in a workmate we are looking at ragged hole down range!

 

[Squirrelbasher]

.22 fac air is absolute brilliant for roost shooting, probably all I would use now.

 

[LuckyEddie]

I use my HW80 in .20 for wandering round the ground.
I use the S410 in .22 for whenever I’m in the hide as it can remain cocked for long periods without damaging the internals.
Both are sub 12ftlbs

 

[enfieldspares]

Of course BASC proposed by them a voluntary ban on the use of lead for live quarry shooting so you may need to future proof yourself if their back pedalling regarding DEFRA and a lead ban comes to naught?

 

[Zetter]

I have FAC air as well as non FAC air and while it is a lot of of hassle if you don't initially have FAC (i.e. its all the agro of getting a rimfire for 1/3rd of the power) if you do and have cabinet space I would say go for it. The one advantage of FAC air is hitting power. It really in my experience doesn't do a lot for you in terms of extra range really (I tried my night time bunny bashing a couple of times and unless its at known distances I find I really needed a rangefinder) so if you shoot non FAC air and expect it to push you out an extra 30-40 yards then it may a bit of a let down as its still have a rather pronounced trajectory.
However the extra power is handy for hitting power. I use my primarily for squirrel shooting when our season is over on the shoot I beat on and it opens up a lot more possibilities due to the extra wallop. I have always found squirrels quite a tough animal with sub 12 air requiring a decent on target headshot for a clean kill but the FAC air offers up the option of chest shots as a realistic option for a clean despatch, so if they are in a bit of a difficult position on a branch or a twig is in a bad place then you have more options on where to hit them.
This goes even more so for avian pests as they are generally more delicate and body shots put them down hard with FAC air as its got the extra energy to punch through to the vitals. With diablo pellets the fall off range on FAC air while taking elevated shots is also quite short as they do by the nature of the pellet design run out of puff and are generally not carrying a lot of mass.

Price wise if you are going .22 there are definitely deals to be had out there as being less popular/ much more difficult to own than standard air rifles the price on older models does plummet. My current rifle I got about 3 years ago and is an FAC BSA R10 MKII and this was only £500. You do see a lot of Air Arms 410s floating about in FAC air for quite low prices and they are pretty bomb proof.

 

[2Ll’s]

I Have had sub 12 air rifles in the past and although good, none have a patch on m my FAC .22 impact, it runs at 42ft pounds. I run 17.5 grain slugs through it and it is bang on out to75 yards. It is accurate regulated and stops what you hit in iTIS tacks. Crows literally drop out of the trees without a flap. You will not regret going powerful FAC.

 

[Johnyt]

I Have had sub 12 air rifles in the past and although good, none have a patch on m my FAC .22 impact, it runs at 42ft pounds. I run 17.5 grain slugs through it and it is bang on out to75 yards. It is accurate regulated and stops what you hit in iTIS tacks. Crows literally drop out of the trees without a flap. You will not regret going powerful FAC.

That's a good 1000 FPS, I guess those slugs are the way to go.

 

[Boosh]

Just have to consider where fac slugs are going to end up, with a favourable angle, I remember running the calcs and 600 mtrs away was possible.
Straight up and the projectile is dropping close to straight down to a max that terminal velocity allows, around 1.5-2 ft lbs of energy at best, any horizontal movement as it comes into land just means it is carrying some of it's forward push, maybe carrying 4-5ft lbs of energy, might not sound a lot, but you would not want one in the nut.

 

[One on top of two]

Just have to consider where fac slugs are going to end up, with a favourable angle, I remember running the calcs and 600 mtrs away was possible.
Straight up and the projectile is dropping close to straight down to a max that terminal velocity allows, around 1.5-2 ft lbs of energy at best, any horizontal movement as it comes into land just means it is carrying some of it's forward push, maybe carrying 4-5ft lbs of energy, might not sound a lot, but you would not want one in the nut.

And I wouldn’t want to be walking around the woods somewhere while some fukwit with his .270 miss’s his target a ricochets 120 grain of “ sit your ass down “ all over the place ..

I’ll take the slug all day long

 

[25 Sharps]

Get the FAC, it will punch through pigeons from any angle.

My guess is most of the people saying don’t go FAC haven’t used a modern, multi shot .22/.25 FAC PCP. Awesome tool with many applications.