FAC variation - any tips

[ABL]

I'm thinking of seeking a variation. I've a .308 currently which ive had for about 2 years. I'm minded to get a 6.5x55 for general use when I'm not expecting anything bigger than a roe. I'd also, ideally, have a .223 slot as an option for a lead free world that's coming. I've got DSC1 and 2 though no permission of my own yet - I mostly stalk with friends and through favours. My local police are Thames Valley and they were pretty good when I got my FAC first 2 years ago.

My questions are:

1. Any advice on how to present my ask to get the best chance of a positive result?

2. What are my options when it comes to managing a period without my FAC if I have to post it? I presume I can't shoot without it, but the TV guidance says it may take 8 weeks for a response. I've see some folk refer to taking them in for a variation. Any suggestions?

 

[HonestJohn]

All you need is good reason. Don’t stipulate want or would like. Put down ‘deer management and pest control’ for both. Add for 6.5 - for alternative optics allowing night time shooting (the will never check), and for .223 - pest control

You might get push back on adding 2 more without your own permission

You don’t send in your FAC until the variation is complete, then you get notified and send it in, so you’re only without it a couple of days

 

[ABL]

All you need is good reason. Don’t stipulate want or would like. Put down ‘deer management and pest control’ for both. Add for 6.5 - for alternative optics allowing night time shooting (the will never check), and for .223 - pest control

You might get push back on adding 2 more without your own permission

You don’t send in your FAC until the variation is complete, then you get notified and send it in, so you’re only without it a couple of days

That's really helpful. Much appreciated

 

[Rhodesianjess]

All you need is good reason. Don’t stipulate want or would like. Put down ‘deer management and pest control’ for both. Add for 6.5 - for alternative optics allowing night time shooting (the will never check), and for .223 - pest control

You might get push back on adding 2 more without your own permission

You don’t send in your FAC until the variation is complete, then you get notified and send it in, so you’re only without it a couple of days

I'm TVP, I can assure you that they will check if you put night vision use. I have a 223 dedicated night vision and on last visit he checked and entered something on his paperwork. Others I know have been asked to produce the scope of you say you're using detachable mounted night vision.
On the other hand, they're very reasonable with variations assuming you have good reason ie not just that you fancy one. My last variation took less than a fortnight.

 

[ABL]

I'm TVP, I can assure you that they will check if you put night vision use. I have a 223 dedicated night vision and on last visit he checked and entered something on his paperwork. Others I know have been asked to produce the scope of you say you're using detachable mounted night vision.
On the other hand, they're very reasonable with variations assuming you have good reason ie not just that you fancy one. My last variation took less than a fortnight.

Thanks. The truth of my position is I’d rather have a slightly lighter calibre for the times I’m out after smaller deer. Less meat damage and a flatter trajectory for accurate placement. Do you think that will be treated as reason enough?

 

[rookyshot]

I’m with TVP and I find them really easy to deal with and variations get process pretty quickly, weeks rather than months.

My experience is that if you have good reason they seem very fair about granting requests but they absolutely do expect you to be able to demonstrate at renewal time that anything you’ve requested is being used and can be backed up via reloading records which they expect you to maintain or factory ammunition purchases on your certificate.

So my guidance would be to just make sure you have got an ongoing requirement for anything you request otherwise it may well be challenged in the future.

Good luck with the variation.

 

[bullet chucker]

Do not forget to include MODERATORS for each rifle and target use/zeroing..

BC

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Thanks. The truth of my position is I’d rather have a slightly lighter calibre for the times I’m out after smaller deer. Less meat damage and a flatter trajectory for accurate placement. Do you think that will be treated as reason enough?

Truly don't know if they'd allow multiple rifles for the same job. Just ask, they can only say no.
I reload 308 for a chap, some ammo specifically for muntjac so as not to cause carcass damage. He gave up his 6.5 Swedish and his 223 and just kept 308, albeit with species specific ammo.
Can't see why 223 not granted, lovely little muntjac/CWD round with SP ammo.
Sods law says if you carry 223 you'll only see roe or fallow though
Ring them, if you get Ian Hewitson, he's a really good bloke with a good attitude towards firearms ownership and use. Best of luck.

 

[shakey jake]

I'm thinking of seeking a variation. I've a .308 currently which ive had for about 2 years. I'm minded to get a 6.5x55 for general use when I'm not expecting anything bigger than a roe. I'd also, ideally, have a .223 slot as an option for a lead free world that's coming. I've got DSC1 and 2 though no permission of my own yet - I mostly stalk with friends and through favours. My local police are Thames Valley and they were pretty good when I got my FAC first 2 years ago.

My questions are:

1. Any advice on how to present my ask to get the best chance of a positive result?

2. What are my options when it comes to managing a period without my FAC if I have to post it? I presume I can't shoot without it, but the TV guidance says it may take 8 weeks for a response. I've see some folk refer to taking them in for a variation. Any suggestions?

6.5 will drop any deer in the uk.
But id say to them what you said on here, dont over complicate it, dont lie.
You could get a themal scope and keep glass on the 308 or the other way.
Or book a few outings for boar

 

[ABL]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I will give it a go. I've always been curious when hearing people talk about having loads of open slots on their FACs - how they got them all in the first place!?

There was a nice looking Sako 75 on guntrader last night, but it's gone this morning. I will try and get the slot for 6.5x55 and then wait to see what comes up in the right order.

 

[Greenmist]

I'm TVP, I can assure you that they will check if you put night vision use. I have a 223 dedicated night vision and on last visit he checked and entered something on his paperwork. Others I know have been asked to produce the scope of you say you're using detachable mounted night vision.
On the other hand, they're very reasonable with variations assuming you have good reason ie not just that you fancy one. My last variation took less than a fortnight.

When I was under TVP, I mentioned having a dedicated NV rifle, the reply was NV scopes are really expensive (which at the time they were), oh you mean like this one as I showed him the scope. As you say, the FEO's were good down there

 

[DeerDucksFishin]

Just a warning with the 6.5 I have one and love it but have had to invest in reloading equipment as ammo especially here in scotland is becoming scarce

 

[Bowland blades]

I'm thinking of seeking a variation. I've a .308 currently which ive had for about 2 years. I'm minded to get a 6.5x55 for general use when I'm not expecting anything bigger than a roe. I'd also, ideally, have a .223 slot as an option for a lead free world that's coming. I've got DSC1 and 2 though no permission of my own yet - I mostly stalk with friends and through favours. My local police are Thames Valley and they were pretty good when I got my FAC first 2 years ago.

My questions are:

1. Any advice on how to present my ask to get the best chance of a positive result?

2. What are my options when it comes to managing a period without my FAC if I have to post it? I presume I can't shoot without it, but the TV guidance says it may take 8 weeks for a response. I've see some folk refer to taking them in for a variation. Any suggestions?

308 is a very versitile rifle , due to it running as a target rifle in its own class , being the Nato Rifle for so many years . It also allows the heaviest end of bullets you will need for things like moose and lighter stuff like fox , muntjac . 6.5x55 carries a better BC but has less bullet choices and anything it can do the .308 can pretty much do with more choice .
Try not to keep very similar performing cartridges as one will be favoured and the other will ended traded . A very common mix that works is say .223 and 308 , 223 for Muntjac / CWD etc and 308 for the larger beasts like Reds , Sika, Fallow etc . A lot of Stalkers keep the Like of .243 and 308 , i myself have Quite a lot of Rifles but that is not very wise before you have a lot of different land and quarry species .
Hope this helps you out , from a been there done that from an Old fart Stalker

 

[ABL]

308 is a very versitile rifle , due to it running as a target rifle in its own class , being the Nato Rifle for so many years . It also allows the heaviest end of bullets you will need for things like moose and lighter stuff like fox , muntjac . 6.5x55 carries a better BC but has less bullet choices and anything it can do the .308 can pretty much do with more choice .
Try not to keep very similar performing cartridges as one will be favoured and the other will ended traded . A very common mix that works is say .223 and 308 , 223 for Muntjac / CWD etc and 308 for the larger beasts like Reds , Sika, Fallow etc . A lot of Stalkers keep the Like of .243 and 308 , i myself have Quite a lot of Rifles but that is not very wise before you have a lot of different land and quarry species .
Hope this helps you out , from a been there done that from an Old fart Stalker

Thanks BB. That makes a lot of sense. In truth a large slice of wanting to try a new toy in the mix here! I will experiment further with different 308 loads before I jump to another rifle

 

[HonestJohn]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I will give it a go. I've always been curious when hearing people talk about having loads of open slots on their FACs - how they got them all in the first place!?

There was a nice looking Sako 75 on guntrader last night, but it's gone this morning. I will try and get the slot for 6.5x55 and then wait to see what comes up in the right order.

It also comes from trust and how long youv’e had your FAC. I’ve found after decades of firearms ownership and not as much as a speeding ticket, any variation requests go through without as much as a question. In fact, thy don’t even want a face to face on renewals now for me

 

[3595wilk]

I'm with TVP and have .222 for Fox and AOLQ. 6.5x55 for Deer and AOLQ, and currently swapping my .308 (Deer and AOLQ) for 7x64.

In addition I have been granted RF, HMR, FAC Air - all for the field - and 6mm BRA for target.

I do however have deer ground and several other permissions, so have never struggled for good reason for my requests really.

Only blip I had was a request to have the 6mm BRA for daytime fox. As I'd switched .243 for the Swede, they said that was my day fox rifle under the AOLQ condition.

So, guess there wasn't enough good reason...... not that fussed though....... as the BRA is 18lbs and a 28 inch barrel.......

 

[sy247]

I've had a .270 for years as my only deer legal rifle. I am stalking a lot more regularly, often roe, cwd and muntjac and decided I wanted a 6.5x55 as a softer shooting all round deer calibre, with a variable scope instead of the fixed power on the .270.

Explained i wanted to keep the .270 for reds, open hill, Africa etc. FEO asked a few questions and seemed satisfied with my answers. Requested at last renewal and granted no problem.

I submitted a variation at the beginning of Feb for a .223. Good reason, small deer species and fox control. Had a chat with FEO on the phone and explained I wanted to use a digital day/night sight. He gave it a verbal ok. I still haven't got my FAC back. Apparently renewals are being prioritised.

My advice is:

Get your good reason sorted
Stock up on plenty of ammo
Don't be in a rush

 

[nf-fuse]

I've had a .270 for years as my only deer legal rifle. I am stalking a lot more regularly, often roe, cwd and muntjac and decided I wanted a 6.5x55 as a softer shooting all round deer calibre, with a variable scope instead of the fixed power on the .270.

Explained i wanted to keep the .270 for reds, open hill, Africa etc. FEO asked a few questions and seemed satisfied with my answers. Requested at last renewal and granted no problem.

I submitted a variation at the beginning of Feb for a .223. Good reason, small deer species and fox control. Had a chat with FEO on the phone and explained I wanted to use a digital day/night sight. He gave it a verbal ok. I still haven't got my FAC back. Apparently renewals are being prioritised.

My advice is:

Get your good reason sorted
Stock up on plenty of ammo
Don't be in a rush

Do they ask you to send your ticket in? If so I would chase.

My FLD only gets you to send your cert in when they've already agreed to it.

 

[sy247]

Yes, I got a call shortly after submitting the variation requesting I send the certificate in. They said they wouldn't start processing it until they received it.

I sent an polite email a couple a weeks ago and was told they couldn't give any timescales and the office was very busy.

 

[M@tt]

2. What are my options when it comes to managing a period without my FAC if I have to post it? I presume I can't shoot without it, but the TV guidance says it may take 8 weeks for a response. I've see some folk refer to taking them in for a variation. Any suggestions?

You are still certificated so continue as before. I would keep a copy of it, either as photocopy or a picture on your phone, just in case.
Some forces send it out and tell you to destroy the original one when the new one arrives, saves everyone time.