nuttyspaniel
Well-Known Member
Double post
Last edited:
Fair Pricing Structure?
- Thread starter jamross65
- Start date
jamross65
Well-Known Member
No, he was taken to the cashline machine...
Now the reasons for this thread are probably becoming more apparant...
nuttyspaniel
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread with some very valid points.
Nutty
Nutty
eggy s
Well-Known Member
I charge £150 per day.
This gets you 1 x cull animal per stalk, I class Fallow prickets, does and any muntjac up to 6cm as a cull animal.
If you want to shoot extra after that then that is up to you, but it will cost you as per the price list.
This is all laid out before you come in the terms and conditions. There is no pressure to shoot anything you don't want to and if after you shot the cull animal you don't want to shoot anymore I am happy to carry on and and enjoy the experience.
No charge for a miss, but there will be a charge for a unrecovered animal.
Yes I am expensive but my success rate is about 90% and so far I have only had one unhappy client and that was because I would not drive him round and let him shoot out the window
If they don't like it then that is up to them to go somewhere else.
This gets you 1 x cull animal per stalk, I class Fallow prickets, does and any muntjac up to 6cm as a cull animal.
If you want to shoot extra after that then that is up to you, but it will cost you as per the price list.
This is all laid out before you come in the terms and conditions. There is no pressure to shoot anything you don't want to and if after you shot the cull animal you don't want to shoot anymore I am happy to carry on and and enjoy the experience.
No charge for a miss, but there will be a charge for a unrecovered animal.
Yes I am expensive but my success rate is about 90% and so far I have only had one unhappy client and that was because I would not drive him round and let him shoot out the window
If they don't like it then that is up to them to go somewhere else.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Taff
I would suggest that what is come across is a bit of a lottery, unless roebucks obviously. I certainly cannot guarantee a huge 8 point sika or of a medal class stag, just because of their habitual (or lack of it) behaviour. Which is why I have turned down one or two enquiries only looking to shoot really big stuff. They are there but only one or two tend to always show in the same areas and fairly infrequently and most are shot 'just out stalking'...
I had 2 guests out this year who could have both taken a far better beast than the spikers we were after. Both are members on here and one of them was looking at a group of 7 mature stags plus a spiker among them. He could have probably shot at any one of the others although still in velvet. I waited and waited but the target animal did not clear the group or was always standing behind or in front of another. I honestly never even considered saying he could shoot one of the others if he was prepared to pay for it. Now if he had been out for 2 or 3 days without a shot and that same scenario presented itself on the last outing, I may well have picked out the poorest of the group and told him to shoot it at no extra cost over a spiker. Cull to meet after all and I shoot a few myself anyway. I would think that is pretty fair??
Last edited:
The beauty of a template is that you can make it as variable as you like. At the end you just fill in the required boxes and hey presto you get a min/max. Suggest we talk about it when we next meet.
Gazza
Well-Known Member
An excellent policy but can all pro stalkers afford to extend this invitation.
If you sell stalking I think it only fair and right that you put on the best day you possibly can for your client but I can't help thinking that the stalker who is not entirely reliant on what he makes from stalking to pay his living bills can be more flexible in what he charges/allowances he may make. I charge on my time, expences, lease costs. Now if I added in mortgage and groceries for the month.
The beauty with templates or spreadsheets is that you can make them quite easily with all the veriables included.
The user can that just disregard the lines that do not concern him.
But as I said i'll discuss it with Jamross when I next see him.
Last edited:
Stalking is unpredictable but we can with experience bias the odds. Clients should understand that nothing is certain. I pay for fly fishing and that isn't cheep either but if I blank well thats just the way it is. Same with stalking and if I blank well I blank. Should put live rounds in I guess. As long as you know what your paying for I don't see the problem.
One price structure across the board could never work, our individual situations are to diverse for that, really there should not be a problem as long as all charges have been made clear.
When ever you make an enquiry all charges should be made clear there should be no grey areas, if there are walk away.
If the cost is more than you are prepared to pay walk away.
There are no doubt some rogues but the majority of people selling stalking are honest, the shooting world is very small
and word gets round fast, those that are dishonest don't last very long in this business.
When ever you make an enquiry all charges should be made clear there should be no grey areas, if there are walk away.
If the cost is more than you are prepared to pay walk away.
There are no doubt some rogues but the majority of people selling stalking are honest, the shooting world is very small
and word gets round fast, those that are dishonest don't last very long in this business.
foxhunter
Well-Known Member
I think Jamross's approach is the fairest way to go especially in these hard economic times. I like the idea of transparent pricing and the fact that there is an outing fee and a success fee as surely it is then in the stalkers interest to get a beast as he wins all round. i.e success fee and venison money plus a happy client..
A happy client will tend to make future bookings!
A happy client will tend to make future bookings!
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Fair point Gazza...
My only response is that a reasonable return can still be had even when prices are set by estates without appearing to 'shaft' or take advantage of lesser educated guests.
As suggested earlier, provide a good day and folk will want to come back thereby securing future business.
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
provide a good day and folk will want to come back thereby securing future business
And I think thats the crux of it . . . Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes . . . . I know a few lads who have been bitten over the years, too be fair more with syndicates other than paid days but still similar. As long as the terms are clear before you load the rifle {and both parties stick to them} then everyone should leave happy.
And I think thats the crux of it . . . Once bitten twice shy as the saying goes . . . . I know a few lads who have been bitten over the years, too be fair more with syndicates other than paid days but still similar. As long as the terms are clear before you load the rifle {and both parties stick to them} then everyone should leave happy.
Last edited:
6pointer
Well-Known Member
It really dose not matter if you are paying a mortgage or not. Make it clear and ever one knows. charging per inch centimeter etc is just a con in my book. What novice can look at a trophy and guess if its 10 or 15 cm from 150 mtr not many. No wounder we get clients who **** them selves if they see a large 6 pointer buck they start to try and add up the cost. In my book put the price on at the at the start instead of pressure when out stalking. Most pro,s know that if a man has travelled 100,s of miles and the only chance put in front of him is a nice buck he will take it. But that don't mean he likes what has happened. I have heard many nightmare scenarios and cant believe any one would pay it.
Glad this thread has got people talking.
I myself as a new stalker have often wondered why such huge differences in charges. However over the last year or so I have come to realize why certain people charge in the way they do.
I have been out with a number of the guys on here who have all put their prices in plain English in an email before confirming my booking. However I will say that although I have accepted these terms willingly as a means of accessing stalking of various types in different places with different guides I still have my own thoughts on whether they have turned out to be both fair to both parties, of good value or have meant I have returned feeling slightly deflated.
Now I must stress ALL the stalking I have done has been paid per day and I full accepted the costs upfront so definitely not complaining about any of the experiences. My following comments are my plain feelings on how I now would prefer to buy my stalking. I quite accept that this will not happen and guides will continue to charge in the way that best suits them and their circumstances, which is fine but they may well find that they are doing themselves a disservice.
Now I looked at many options when setting out but decided to stay local initially for my firsts stalks. Prices given, friendly guide who put deer in front of me. Only disappointment was that although I had stated I would prefer to walk, I was put in a seat, deer did show but I wasn't confident to make the choice of animal so didn't shoot. Must admit I enjoyed myself and accepted that guide wanted me to see deer which was most likely from a seat. However I did feel that as another newbie was with guide and benefited from his knowledge I felt that I had paid the same mans wage and not had his expertise or attention so wondered what I had actually handed my money over for, as I can go and WATCH deer for free. I needed his guidance to select the animal he felt appropiate so I could take the shot. Instead I had no shot, no deer, learned very little and wondered if this was normal.
I went again with same guy same situation, shot a deer this time based on my own limited knowledge, learned alot on the grallock and began to get along with one another.
Now I've been out with same guy a number of times and enjoy his company and learn something each time I go over. However I still feel that if I'm paying an outing fee I should get the benefit of a guide. Otherwise I am paying to go shoot deer which is not the most important aspect to me. Then there is the kill fee which applies to all animals including cull beasts. I accept people will pay for trophies which is another subject but I have often wondered why there would be a kill fee then if one wants to have the venison that is to be paid for on top.
Basically my opinion is I am happy to pay a guides wages most are charging around £75 per stalk (3-4 hours) reasonable wage for a SKILLED PROFESSIONAL. And no one should expect a guy to work for free (they are working even though we clients do it for fun, it is their job and livelihood).
If stalking for cull animals these should be exactly as stated and be a part of a cull plan. This I thought is what we all strive to achive, keep number to a sustainable level while improving the overall quality of the animals left. With this in mind I would think that if the PH was to be paid to guide you, and was to achive a cull target both parties have benefited and good value had. Now if the client wants to buy the venison at dealer prices that is good for both parties too.
I don't see why a stalker should also pay a kill fee for such an animal as if managing the ground this deer would have to be shot in any case.
I do see where a kill fee may be of benefit as a way of curtailing clients from taking risky shots or culling silly numbers in one outing. It also as said encourages a guide to put deer in front of a client rather than just going out and earning a days pay with little chance of showing deer. In this case I would suggest that a kill fee is levied based on the carcase value, if succesfull the client would retain the carcase or if not required by the client the guide gets to keep it but waive the kill fee, as the cull has been done and he has the value of the venison as the profit just as a PH would normally operate. This way the client is likely to take good shots as there is a reward for doing so whilst carrying out the planned cull.
I have now been out with a guy who operates in a similar way and TBH his knowledge and willingness to share it was great, he was taking me out as an individual and got numbers of deer in front of me. If I could find others who do the same for other species in other area's of the country where I would like to stalk I would take more days out than at present.
Trophy animals are a different kettle of fish as said earlier.
I myself as a new stalker have often wondered why such huge differences in charges. However over the last year or so I have come to realize why certain people charge in the way they do.
I have been out with a number of the guys on here who have all put their prices in plain English in an email before confirming my booking. However I will say that although I have accepted these terms willingly as a means of accessing stalking of various types in different places with different guides I still have my own thoughts on whether they have turned out to be both fair to both parties, of good value or have meant I have returned feeling slightly deflated.
Now I must stress ALL the stalking I have done has been paid per day and I full accepted the costs upfront so definitely not complaining about any of the experiences. My following comments are my plain feelings on how I now would prefer to buy my stalking. I quite accept that this will not happen and guides will continue to charge in the way that best suits them and their circumstances, which is fine but they may well find that they are doing themselves a disservice.
Now I looked at many options when setting out but decided to stay local initially for my firsts stalks. Prices given, friendly guide who put deer in front of me. Only disappointment was that although I had stated I would prefer to walk, I was put in a seat, deer did show but I wasn't confident to make the choice of animal so didn't shoot. Must admit I enjoyed myself and accepted that guide wanted me to see deer which was most likely from a seat. However I did feel that as another newbie was with guide and benefited from his knowledge I felt that I had paid the same mans wage and not had his expertise or attention so wondered what I had actually handed my money over for, as I can go and WATCH deer for free. I needed his guidance to select the animal he felt appropiate so I could take the shot. Instead I had no shot, no deer, learned very little and wondered if this was normal.
I went again with same guy same situation, shot a deer this time based on my own limited knowledge, learned alot on the grallock and began to get along with one another.
Now I've been out with same guy a number of times and enjoy his company and learn something each time I go over. However I still feel that if I'm paying an outing fee I should get the benefit of a guide. Otherwise I am paying to go shoot deer which is not the most important aspect to me. Then there is the kill fee which applies to all animals including cull beasts. I accept people will pay for trophies which is another subject but I have often wondered why there would be a kill fee then if one wants to have the venison that is to be paid for on top.
Basically my opinion is I am happy to pay a guides wages most are charging around £75 per stalk (3-4 hours) reasonable wage for a SKILLED PROFESSIONAL. And no one should expect a guy to work for free (they are working even though we clients do it for fun, it is their job and livelihood).
If stalking for cull animals these should be exactly as stated and be a part of a cull plan. This I thought is what we all strive to achive, keep number to a sustainable level while improving the overall quality of the animals left. With this in mind I would think that if the PH was to be paid to guide you, and was to achive a cull target both parties have benefited and good value had. Now if the client wants to buy the venison at dealer prices that is good for both parties too.
I don't see why a stalker should also pay a kill fee for such an animal as if managing the ground this deer would have to be shot in any case.
I do see where a kill fee may be of benefit as a way of curtailing clients from taking risky shots or culling silly numbers in one outing. It also as said encourages a guide to put deer in front of a client rather than just going out and earning a days pay with little chance of showing deer. In this case I would suggest that a kill fee is levied based on the carcase value, if succesfull the client would retain the carcase or if not required by the client the guide gets to keep it but waive the kill fee, as the cull has been done and he has the value of the venison as the profit just as a PH would normally operate. This way the client is likely to take good shots as there is a reward for doing so whilst carrying out the planned cull.
I have now been out with a guy who operates in a similar way and TBH his knowledge and willingness to share it was great, he was taking me out as an individual and got numbers of deer in front of me. If I could find others who do the same for other species in other area's of the country where I would like to stalk I would take more days out than at present.
Trophy animals are a different kettle of fish as said earlier.
pitiliedon
Well-Known Member
As long as the costs are detailed up front and all likeley eventualities understood and planned for i dont see a problem that there is a huge range of what people are charging. Everyones costs are different.
If i have a stalker, a ghillie, a vehicle and ATV out on the hill for a day ,thats one set of costs, if i'm wandering round the low ground after roe for 2-3 hrs am and pm with a guest or have abandoned some poor soul in a high seat as midge food for an evening , it has a different tariff. The next property may be more expensive for the same or cheaper, they know their costs and price accordingly. It is still a loss making proposition for us to go to the hill and only bring -off 1 hind . You could prep a template but in my experiance you will almost never be comparing like for like.
If i have a stalker, a ghillie, a vehicle and ATV out on the hill for a day ,thats one set of costs, if i'm wandering round the low ground after roe for 2-3 hrs am and pm with a guest or have abandoned some poor soul in a high seat as midge food for an evening , it has a different tariff. The next property may be more expensive for the same or cheaper, they know their costs and price accordingly. It is still a loss making proposition for us to go to the hill and only bring -off 1 hind . You could prep a template but in my experiance you will almost never be comparing like for like.
Cost and value are equally important.
Consider two paid stalks I undertook for Sika.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] wonderful, we got close to several deer and had the rifle briefly on a stag but didn’t get a shot.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] , torrential rain, he took me out for a quick sit in a high seat and walk around going through the motions, both of us knew we were unlikely to see deer.
He knew my itinerary was flexible, so I could have gone out the next day and he didn’t have another client. Ultimately I didn’t rebook with him.
Consider two paid stalks I undertook for Sika.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] wonderful, we got close to several deer and had the rifle briefly on a stag but didn’t get a shot.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] , torrential rain, he took me out for a quick sit in a high seat and walk around going through the motions, both of us knew we were unlikely to see deer.
He knew my itinerary was flexible, so I could have gone out the next day and he didn’t have another client. Ultimately I didn’t rebook with him.
I haven't read all the postso I don't know if this has been covered , but I'd be willing to pay more if the scenery and habitat was more dramatic/challenging , for example if I was paying 75 per stalk for roe bucks in Sussex grassland I'd be happy to pay more for some really hilly Scottish buck stalking . Maybe that's just me . What do you think ?
6pointer
Well-Known Member
Acm you might be correct some people want to look at the mountains and rivers and thats fine but why pay a stalker to do it. I here lots of people saying i dont mind if i dont see or shoot a day its just good to be out. Balls most are out to stalk and shoot a deer but if you shoot a deer you think was a cull beast and it ends up to be a posy 6cm tall than though and you need to pay an extra £60 or what ever its not a nice feeling. Its not part of stalking its been put in by greedy Pro,s
Similar threads
