FAQ: Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate?

[nic531]

Why do the police condition an open certificate, the conditions are restricive not permisive and therefore unnecessary.

depends on the conditions... open is location, not usage

 

[Nugohstaylor]

Ok I’ve had a scan through the replies and questions and this one doesn’t seem to be in.

Can I take my rifle (closed ticket) foxing on land with my mentor who has an open ticket?

 

[Woodsmoke]

Can I take my rifle (closed ticket) foxing on land with my mentor who has an open ticket?

Afraid not

 

[VSS]

Ok I’ve had a scan through the replies and questions and this one doesn’t seem to be in.

Can I take my rifle (closed ticket) foxing on land with my mentor who has an open ticket?

My understanding is that, because you have a "closed" FAC, you can only use your rifle on land that's been cleared for the use of that calibre, regardless of who is supervising you.
You could, however, use your mentor's rifle under the "Estate rifle" clause.

 

[Nugohstaylor]

My understanding is that, because you have a "closed" FAC, you can only use your rifle on land that's been cleared for the use of that calibre, regardless of who is supervising you.
You could, however, use your mentor's rifle under the "Estate rifle" clause.

Ok and thanks. I do know the land has been cleared for a .22LR so would it require another visit from the police to upgrade it to a .243

 

[Orion]

Possibly, if they were unable to carry it out as a paper exercise.

 

[Orion]

You could, however, use your mentor's rifle under the "Estate rifle" clause.

Only if the mentor himself satisfies the conditions attached to S11A Firearms Act 1968

Particularly (3)(c)(i) & (2)

 

[VSS]

Only if the mentor himself satisfies the conditions attached to S11A Firearms Act 1968

Particularly (3)(c)(i) & (2)

Fair points. I would say 3a is pretty important too.

 

[Hudson12]

I’ve a closed ticket and rang today and spoke with my feo regarding paid stalks and the land not being aproved with the estate man having an open ticket he has never bothered they were quite happy for me to use my rifle on any paid stalk accompanied by a professional stalker but when I said I had done my dsc 1 and also the 2 is being processed he has told me to put a letter in with my ticket to them asking for it to be open and he has no problem
In opening it it may help that I am shooting most weekends both days and also my stalking buddy is a long standing AW but they could t of been more helpful just ring them and speak with them

 

[jimbo1984]

Don’t worry about closed tickets any more lads just see chasey on here shoot where you like with him on a closed ticket ! Result

 

[glasshalffull]

As this comes up quite a bit here is the difference between a 'closed' ('more restrictive') certificate and an 'open' (or 'less restrictive') certificate.

Note that it is dependent on the conditions PER rifle. It is possible to have a certificate that is open for one rifle and closed for another.


1) Closed Certificate

The condition contains the text "land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police" or similar. The certificate holder needs to check with the police force applicable to the ground to see if the ground is cleared and if not arrange to have the ground cleared for the calibre in question.

An example 'closed' condition:

View attachment 5653


2) 'Open' or 'Less Restrictive' Certificate

The onus is solely upon the certificate holder to check that the ground is suitable for the calibre/scenario. They do not need to check with the police force that the ground is cleared.

An example 'open' condition:

View attachment 5652

Open with 1000 rounds ammo

 

[Leemac]

Minefield looking to upgrade my SGC to a full FAC, any advice from other members? Don’t really have a piece of land in mind to start with, I’m guessing that’s going to make life difficult!

 

[glasshalffull]

I recently took someone out who had the condition 'the blah blah blah may be used for blah blah blah on any land suitable for the use of this class of firearm....

Where does this fall under? less restrictive or closed? No mention of chief officer of police etc. Looks like they may just have deleted the chief officer phrase. But would like some opinions from here??.........

That's exactly what mine says word for word

 

[Orion]

'the blah blah blah may be used for blah blah blah on any land suitable for the use of this class of firearm....

That's exactly what mine says word for word

So who decides what land is/was suitable when it all goes t*ts up and there’s an investigation with the FAC holder under threat of prosecution and/or losing his FAC?

There’s absolutely no need to leave people exposed if FLDs simply follow the HOG and used the condition(s) laid out for them in Appendix 3.

I wouldn’t be happy with that on my certificate and would be requesting; either written clarification if I was expecting to be on a territorial condition; or removal and use of the HO advised ‘open’ one.

 

[tikka_madras]

I’ve just been issued with a varied certificate which has only the four statutory conditions. Nothing at all about what or where I can shoot. Is that normal now? I’m presuming it means I can do what I like with the guns (within the law). My old certificate was open but had the usual blurb...target practice and zeroing...AOLQ..etc. This one...nada.

 

[Griggo06]

Minefield looking to upgrade my SGC to a full FAC, any advice from other members? Don’t really have a piece of land in mind to start with, I’m guessing that’s going to make life difficult!

Anyone want to voice an opinion on this?

 

[Orion]

Paid for stalking or as a guest are adequate to support ‘good reason‘ for possession of a firearm. If going via that route it would be advisable to have some evidence to back up an application i.e. proof of booking or invitation.

See HOG 13.32 for reference to this.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Paid for stalking or as a guest are adequate to support ‘good reason‘ for possession of a firearm. If going via that route it would be advisable to have some evidence to back up an application i.e. proof of booking or invitation.

See HOG 13.32 for reference to this.

When I guided hunters, and they provided evidence I had supplied in support of their application, on more than one occasion they whacked on a mentoring condition, stating they could only stalk with me as their mentor until I was happy to sign them off, if I was an unscrupulous piece of s1ht I would never have signed them off and just kept taking their hard earned money
But I didn't!
However, I was mentoring one guy, then I had a phone call off the police stating he had been in a drunken fight, his mentoring ended immediately as did his FAC application.
Cheers
Richard

 

[mealiejimmy]

Anyone want to voice an opinion on this?

You don't "upgrade" from an SGC to an FAC, they are different certificates, although, before meeting all the conditions for an FAC, you will have met the conditions for an SGC.
The big difference is that for an FAC you must show "good reason" for each FAC weapon you wish to possess.
The most common way to meet this condition is to have written permission to shoot with the rifles you want over at least one piece of land (assuming you don't own any such land)
Another way is to provide proof that you have been on paid stalks or invited on stalks.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Griggo06]

You don't "upgrade" from an SGC to an FAC, they are different certificates, although, before meeting all the conditions for an FAC, you will have met the conditions for an SGC.
The big difference is that for an FAC you must show "good reason" for each FAC weapon you wish to possess.
The most common way to meet this condition is to have written permission to shoot with the rifles you want over at least one piece of land (assuming you don't own any such land)
Another way is to provide proof that you have been on paid stalks or invited on stalks.

Cheers

Bruce

Cheers Bruce useful info. My family own 40 acres of which I have permission to shoot over. I also have permission fro the farmer who rents the land to shoot over another 50 of his. I don't know if this is restricted by caliber though.

I also have started going on paid stalking. How would you show evidence of that, sorry if that's a silly question.
Maybe pictures? I can't see a receipt being given when you are stood at the boot of a truck. Or am I wrong?
All very new to this.
Had a SGC for many years now but rifle is new to me.
Just want to have all my ducks in a row before I apply.