RPA 6MM BR
Well-Known Member
+1
Field Accuracy
- Thread starter Yoda
- Start date
+1
Very funny how people come up with excuses just because their rifles are not capable of 1/2" groups. Only if you have an accurate rifle can you start working on technique or? How would you judge your shot otherwise?
Of course we can hold under 1 MOA in the field, not easy but doable and needs practice. Just ask the guys shooting the little rodents in the US at silly ranges. Even we shoot crows at well over 200m with centre fire rifles regular. A 3 MOA rifle would be useless in those situations. Why are accurate rifles thought to be heavy? They do not have to be. A 400m deer rifle does not need a very long barrel, so where should the weight come from? I shoot plenty deer at 300m with a 6lb+scope rifle, sometimes the high grass presents only a small target area.
Only if one has an accurate hunting rifle can one judge if it is needed or not. It might not always be needed but often...... it is certainly not a disadvantage.
Many hunters in Europe only have one deer rifle.....year round what would be better 1MOA or 3 MOA ??
by the way it is not a sin to take a deer with a super precise shot from a well rested position even if some would call it sniping.
edi
Of course we can hold under 1 MOA in the field, not easy but doable and needs practice. Just ask the guys shooting the little rodents in the US at silly ranges. Even we shoot crows at well over 200m with centre fire rifles regular. A 3 MOA rifle would be useless in those situations. Why are accurate rifles thought to be heavy? They do not have to be. A 400m deer rifle does not need a very long barrel, so where should the weight come from? I shoot plenty deer at 300m with a 6lb+scope rifle, sometimes the high grass presents only a small target area.
Only if one has an accurate hunting rifle can one judge if it is needed or not. It might not always be needed but often...... it is certainly not a disadvantage.
Many hunters in Europe only have one deer rifle.....year round what would be better 1MOA or 3 MOA ??
by the way it is not a sin to take a deer with a super precise shot from a well rested position even if some would call it sniping.
edi
You are obviously a very good shot but the average person isn't. I wouldn't dream of shooting a Deer at 400 yards and I don't know anyone that could or should.
I know some people who think they are good shots and if you were to believe them they could win Olympic gold medals ever 4 years.
I wouldn't call shooting a Deer at 400 yards sniping, for the average person, I would call it stupidity.
N.F.W.M
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that everyone should be able to take a relatively accurate back up shot at longer ranges. Thats not stupidity its being respectful to quarry.
I will go further and say if you have not practiced taking longer range shots you should not be shooting live quarry. I doubt there is a person (an honest person) on this forum who has not needed an accurate back up shot taken at a distance further than the original shot.
Stalking close is a great skill that con only be learned by patience and practice. Shooting at extended ranges is also a great skill that can only be learned by using the same patience and practice, practice on paper not live game. As the skill level increases so does confidence and then longer shots can effectively be taken at extended ranges.
Regards
Ed
I will go further and say if you have not practiced taking longer range shots you should not be shooting live quarry. I doubt there is a person (an honest person) on this forum who has not needed an accurate back up shot taken at a distance further than the original shot.
Stalking close is a great skill that con only be learned by patience and practice. Shooting at extended ranges is also a great skill that can only be learned by using the same patience and practice, practice on paper not live game. As the skill level increases so does confidence and then longer shots can effectively be taken at extended ranges.
Regards
Ed
RPA 6MM BR
Well-Known Member
Well I am obviously very stupid then! I have shot a lot of deer at over 300 yards. Now I would not take this on with a standard stalking rifle In say 243 but a heavy custom built rifle shooting high bc heavy bullets that I have practiced with and am very confident in I would have no issues with it. If I can shoot from a pre determined shooting position and have everything set up with a very good rest and I know my rifle then why not? The DSC1 standard is 4" at 100 yards! I know my rifle will achieve better than this at 4 or 5 hundred and further so what's the difference? Yes the haters will now start but I have been on here long enough now to ignore them.
The point is, everyone can benefit from practice...practice is only beneficial if you can evaluate your results. This will let you know what risks are involved in shooting deer sized targets and at what range. Evaluation when using a "blunt tool" like a 3 MOA rifle will be difficult. If you send 50 people with a 3MOA rifle out to do their DSC practical test, how many will pass? I think those that do not pass should not be hunting deer with that type of gear. Give those 50 people a 1/2MOA rifle and I guarantee a higher percentage will pass and of course the likelihood of wounding a deer is lower. Deer do not always stand picture book side on, in the hills you'll often have high grass and often only head neck shots are presented on small deer, at least in our area. If one is not capable of controlling deer numbers in those conditions one should stay at home and let those who can do it.
As I said before a more accurate rifle will on an average lead to more accurate shot placement, nothing bad about that.
Only downside is that some might feel overconfident due to tiny groups on the range and might take a risky shot under the wrong circumstances. Experience helps in that case.
edi
I can see that my new emoticon is going to get a lot of use in 2015.....
Whilst you lot have been arguing about how many MOA your rifles are capable of I've been out stalking
Whilst you lot have been arguing about how many MOA your rifles are capable of I've been out stalking
No, you are not stupid as you are a very good shot. I am talking about Mr Average. When you took your DSC1 did you notice how many people struggled to do the 4" at 100 yards.
I'm talking normal field conditions. Anyone can bolt a rifle down and pull the trigger and get a group at 2.3.4.5.6,7 even 800 yards. What does that prove? Nothing.
NORMAL FIELD CONDITIONS the article was about.
Been there, seen it got the ticket, I am sniper elite, but to compare prairie dog shooting to deer stalking you obviously have not, they shoot off benches or truck mounted benches, no one lies in the dirt with there guns, good god man they cost a fortune and there's nowhere for your coffee cup
Where were you shooting prairiedogs? Some Dude Ranch?~Muir
Err....what excuses?
My rifle is more than capable of 1/2" groups if I keep up my end of the bargain. I'm just not going to spend days working out a homeload that will improve that group to 7/16". Been there, done that, and realised it wasn't for me.
I'd rather be out in the woods trying to put a deer in the chiller than trying to shoot a 1/4" group off the bench.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
+1 on the above.
Target shooting can be a lot of fun, but it's not for me. Anyone who can get MOA grouping from 1000 yards is deserving of respect, though. Ok so the rifle is part of that, but it has to be due to technique too
Having said that, anyone who clamps a rifle onto a bench so tightly that they knock a wedge of wood off from behind the bolt & then boasts about what a good shot they are deserves to get a hard time as an idiot...........
Target shooting can be a lot of fun, but it's not for me. Anyone who can get MOA grouping from 1000 yards is deserving of respect, though. Ok so the rifle is part of that, but it has to be due to technique too
Having said that, anyone who clamps a rifle onto a bench so tightly that they knock a wedge of wood off from behind the bolt & then boasts about what a good shot they are deserves to get a hard time as an idiot...........
RPA 6MM BR
Well-Known Member
Yes i know what you mean and I won't lie, even I did back then but I was young and nervous with so many watching. It was 1996 and I did manage to pass but I have done a LOT of shooting since then and learned a lot!
Hypothetically.... If your field shooting position allows a variation in point of impact of 3 in at 100 yards and you have a 1/2 inch rifle then all rounds will land within 3.5 inches. If however you have a three inch grouping rifle then your bullet may land 6 inches from point of aim. I will stick with my 1/2 inch rifle, less sometimes is more!
The most important thing I learned after DSC1 was that - despite some apparent evidence to the contrary - deer don't walk around with targets on them
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
This^
an awful lot of people don't know where the spine runs, or where the heart actually sits, or where the aorta is, or take into account the 3D aspect of the target or the bullet flight and wound channel rather than just the impact point
learn your anatomy as well as your rifle craft
an awful lot of people don't know where the spine runs, or where the heart actually sits, or where the aorta is, or take into account the 3D aspect of the target or the bullet flight and wound channel rather than just the impact point
learn your anatomy as well as your rifle craft
Vipa
Well-Known Member
+1 and then some
Agree 100%.
One of those most enjoyable and probably useful elements of the 3-day DSCL1 (BDS) course I attended, with Chris Howard in the pulpit, was when all candidates had multiple opportunities to indicate with a laser pointer where they would shoot the deer as randomly presented on a projector screen.
Other than one comedian who couldn’t resist threading his ‘shot’ through the splayed legs of a doe to take out a feeding buck with a head shot, all went well for most.
K
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Your equipment has to be good enough to not hold you back. A rifle has to be accurate enough for you to call your shots, at whatever range and target, to know how what error you made, and how much, so you can correct yourself. As one gets better with a rifle or pistol, he will reach the point of no improvement, and a round with a superior tool will tell him if it is time to move up to better equipment.
If am hunting with a 3 MOA rifle, I will treat it like a handgun, and get within 50 yards or less, no matter how good a shot I might be.
If am hunting with a 3 MOA rifle, I will treat it like a handgun, and get within 50 yards or less, no matter how good a shot I might be.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
I must have led a sheltered life as I have not actually shot a 3+MOA rifle!
i am pretty confident unless there is a glaring mechanical issue pretty much all rifles and ammo can be tuned to shoot a rough 1-2" at 100 yds (Which is less than 1-2moa!)
i am pretty confident unless there is a glaring mechanical issue pretty much all rifles and ammo can be tuned to shoot a rough 1-2" at 100 yds (Which is less than 1-2moa!)
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