Forged Certificates

[Morkai]

Paper documents easy to forge, who would believe it...

 

[LuckyEddie]

How about something akin to an MoT check.

You put in your details to access that system.
Then you put in the person’s details D.o.B, postcode, and FAC number to verify them.
Result would be a record copy of the certificate would be seen.

Could be straightforward.

 

[timbrayford]

Maybe they need to consider a card based license with biometrics built in (just like the modern passports) and use the paper license as a counterpart showing what is licensed and ammo purchases, etc.

That would make the forging process much harder but would likely uplift the cost by another £50 as the cards aren’t that cheap.

Get rid of the paper altogether, it belongs to a bygone era

 

[timbrayford]

If there were some system whereby a prospective buyer/seller could contact the issuing force to confirm the other party has a valid certificate (in the absence of a better certificate, which would take time and money to develop) that might be good. But that would involve certificate holders agreeing to this at the point of issue and, probably a bigger problem, having someone available to answer the 'phone in office hours.

Too bureaucratic and antiquated!

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
I watched the Judge sentencing this vile creature today live on the Beeb. The very eloquent lady went into great detail about his offence and what she could or could not do by way of sentencing. I know that 49 years give or take is a very long sentence - he is now only 19 and with time served, could be out at age 68; for reasons I still don’t quite get, why wasn’t the sentence “Whole Life” - for a triple murderer who had already murdered three and was on his way somewhere (his plan was the Primary school) with a loaded shotgun and sufficient cartridges to commit a mass slaughter and was apparently only stopped from so doing because he “encountered” the police - so why not the maximum tariff i.e. whole life?

 

[Foxyboy43]

For info - this is being discussed on another long thread.

 

[TringSaint]

Get rid of the paper altogether, it belongs to a bygone era

I guess the issue with that (and I’m not disagreeing with you) is that if the license card is the only thing you hold on your person, how do you show an rfd or police officer that the weapon in your possession is actually on your licence?

This is the ongoing debacle with cars driving licenses as they don’t show if you have any endorsements meaning you need to download a paper report from an online service to prove what your license says if you want to hire a car.

If you enforce all licenses onto a card then all rfd’s would need a reader or app of some form to be able to validate that the data on the card matched the person standing in front of them.

Not easy to fix without £££££!

 

[mealiejimmy]

This was a private face to face sale (probably part of his plan) hoping that the seller would not know about the security markings on a real SGC.
Plus a seller happy to get a good price for a used shotgun and some cartridges probably isn't going to ask too many questions
Also, from the photos I've seen of him, he looked pretty ordinary, nothing about his appearance to raise the sellers suspicion
How many of us would have been taken in in similar circumstances ?

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Elshad]

Does a private seller have to notify the police of any sale/transfer of a section 2 shotgun?

 

[Tazz]

For info - this is being discussed on another long thread.

Yes it was posted 5 minutes earlier didn’t see it

 

[bobt]

yes

 

[Druid]

Deleted Posted in error

 

[Elshad]

Seems like the fact that the transaction was reported out of hours was a big factor in this case

Perhaps there should be an basic on-call service (perhaps a shared rota staffed by all forces on a rolling basis) to perform urgent checks like this and flag up any dodgy sales so that armed police can be swiftly dispatched.

All that would be needed would be a simple check to check whether the buyer has a valid FAC/SGC or not.

Any other work could be left to the next working day

 

[Tim.243]

Get rid of the paper altogether, it belongs to a bygone era

Paper money has been forged for decades, your mot is paper, they wrap the fish and chips in paper
And don't forget the bog roll.....

 

[Druid]

Apparently the murderer considered stabbing the seller but didn’t because the man’s wife was there.

He wouldn’t have even needed to have a fake certificate to do that.

 

[cjm1066]

I feel for the seller.

I have sold and purchased via SD. It might be useful to post the NCA advice as a sticky on the classified.

Know your UK firearms documents

Project RUTIC is the NCA response to the rising threat of fraudulent copies of firearms documents being used in an atte...

www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk

My recent purchase we exchanged copies of certificates in advance of the meeting, on the day mine was checked as its A5, a lot are still A4.

 

[gixer1]

Just glad the horrible little sh*t didn’t make it to the school.

The system is an outdated, should be updated and electronic and should not take as long as it does and be an inefficient as it is.

It will also give the moronic government more reason to chastise law abiding shooters.

 

[Pedro]

Does a private seller have to notify the police of any sale/transfer of a section 2 shotgun?

I take it you don’t have a shotgun certificate…

 

[Liveonce]

Fundamentally if somebody wants to obtain a firearm illegally it can be done. If somebody wants to commit murder it can be done with a firearm or any other multitude of implements. The individual who committed the crimes in this case has been sentenced to a very long time in prison.

I don’t think changing the law will do anything much to stop such crimes happening. Vast majority of guncrime happens with handguns which are pretty much forbidden for legal use in the mainland UK.

There is a question as to what has gone wrong with some elements of our society that makes some young men feel compelled to go down such a path of violence. The solution probably lies in education, the economy and providing good life opportunities.

But in a population of 70 million people there will always be wronguns and that’s why have a criminal justice system.

indeed one of the victims was stabbed a 100 times but no call to licence knives.

An inquest heard each had gunshot wounds to the head. Kyle had more than 100 knife wounds. Giselle had been shot in the face.

 

[Liveonce]

@Conor O'Gorman are BASC watching this regards fallout on licence holders.