FOX Bullets expansion.

[hammo]

Fired a few test rounds of Fox 160gr bullets, at 100m expansion was impressive. I know that's not far out, but feel confident they will expand to 300m.
Just wanted to see a first hand result. Fired into a sack of loose course sand.
Accuracy looked good, but will need to get on the Bipod and fire again under more stable conditions.
Encouraging results for those like me who worried about poor expansion

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Are these 8mm diameter?

 

[hammo]

Yes. 8x57. 160gr.
I was advised to go for the lighter option, to keep velocity high. There is an 180gr version of these.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

One of the few brands tested down to lower velocities.
We tested them in ballistic clay and NATO strength (20%) gel down to 2200fps terminal velocity
In personally believe from my own experience that they have produced faster and more emphatic killing at lower velocities
I initially started using them myself in 130gr .270 form pushing 3050fps

For the past 18m I have been using them in 150gr .308 form at 2650fps from a 20” barrel.
One of the most impressive results was on a very big stag at around 220m.
Quartering towards me
Shot just in front of one leg, exit just behind the other, above the heart but through aorta and pulmonary vessels and lungs.
Not only did it stop it in it’s tracks within 15-20yds, it produced impressive “shattering” of lungs and huge blood loss through entry/exit and notably the nose and mouth where there was a 1m puddle

 

[paul o']

Hi ED as the UK seems to be on the road of lead free hopfuly in around 260 bullets time as this is what I have left lol. Has fox published any reload data or do you just substitute data from standard bullets used ,looking at there web pages they all are in limbo and locked .
running .277 150 gr SGK at the moment with R22 210fedm

 

[hammo]

I looked at the load data from Fox themselves, but also referenced generic load data for that bullet weight.
These are only 10gr lighter than the 170gr SST's that I use currently.
I am hoping to be pushing the Fox Bullets at about 2800fps, as I have a long barrel.
Will book a Range slot Monday, and see how they group. Weather looks pump tomorrow here, so time to load up some in 0.2gr increments.
Biggest dilemma for me will be what to do with my large stock of 8mm SST's.

 

[Pilky1303]

Interesting post, thanks for taking the time, I’m gonna try some of these now

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Fox webpage is being rebuilt
New shiny one goes live Monday I believe

We have UK factory data which I will upload onto our website
It differs slightly from the range of options on the Fox site but is known and proven with pressure data

It allows you to pretty much start there and not waste a box of bullets working up a load we already know works

Anything fruity or with non RS or Viht powders I can run through quickload

They don’t need to be run hot or light for calibre
Just load as you would for any similar bullet weight

 

[Odders]

One of the few brands tested down to lower velocities.
We tested them in ballistic clay and NATO strength (20%) gel down to 2200fps terminal velocity
In personally believe from my own experience that they have produced faster and more emphatic killing at lower velocities
I initially started using them myself in 130gr .270 form pushing 3050fps

For the past 18m I have been using them in 150gr .308 form at 2650fps from a 20” barrel.
One of the most impressive results was on a very big stag at around 220m.
Quartering towards me
Shot just in front of one leg, exit just behind the other, above the heart but through aorta and pulmonary vessels and lungs.
Not only did it stop it in it’s tracks within 15-20yds, it produced impressive “shattering” of lungs and huge blood loss through entry/exit and notably the nose and mouth where there was a 1m puddle

I passed some on to someone in the US for him to test, as he has the set-up to do so:

The only other brass bullet I have tested is the 6.8mm Controlled Chaos (CC) which did not have positive results. The CC shed bits of brass from the ogive but did not expand nor did it shorten enough to remain stable. Thus it tumbled and penetrated tail first through my bullet trap and plywood backstop.

I did an initial test at 100 yards with the 130gr Fox. The ogive disintegrated into tiny bits of brass but the bullet shortened enough to stay stable (nose first) so the bullet shank over-penetrated but remained in the bullet trap. It looked like a remake of the CC so passed on to (me) the initial (not positive) results and promised to finish tests at greater distance.

Yesterday I was out at the range with the .270 so tried another test at 275 yards (max range distance). To my surprise, I pulled a perfect mushroomed bullet out of the bullet trap with excellent penetration. Expansion was driven to the bottom of the expansion cavity with is non-typical for monolithic bullet. They usually fully expand at a higher velocity/closer range like 100 yards.

Based on the 275 yard results, I decided to test at 200 yards. In this situation, the bullet shank was found deep in the bullet trap again but it had fully mushroomed but the pedals broke off and penetrated independently. The bullet shed it petals almost immediately as there were 3 offset holes in the back of the water jug where the pieces had spiralled out. Only one piece is shown. I actually recovered two pieces but lost one after leaving the range. They averaged 10 grains which is sufficient to sustain internal damage.

I was able to derive the Fox bullet's BC which was 0.277 (G1) with the LabRadar. Not surprising as this is not as streamlined as the 130 GMX or 129 LRX (BC approx 0.414). BTW, bullet accuracy seem good with two bullets within an inch of each other at 275 yards.

I looks like this bullet has been optimized for impact velocities below 2300 fps (less than .270 velocities). Higher velocity impacts are still lethal and had energetic reactions with the water jug. I have one bullet remaining and will conduct a low velocity test around 1800 fps.

Second image is the remaining bullet fired at roughly 1,800fps, range 100yds.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Water based substrate such as gel or clay is the best way to recreate the quarry based terminal impact
They do lose petals in high velocity impact with denser substrate
They all do

What is more of a concern with any bullet is under expansion not over
It’s the primary issue with very High BC bullets with very small meplats

 

[Dalua]

Biggest dilemma for me will be what to do with my large stock of 8mm SST's.

Use them up on the range for field-type positional practice?

 

[Odders]

Water based substrate such as gel or clay is the best way to recreate the quarry based terminal impact
They do lose petals in high velocity impact with denser substrate
They all do

What is more of a concern with any bullet is under expansion not over
It’s the primary issue with very High BC bullets with very small meplats

I'm not criticising Ed, just posting what the results were.
IMO it's a positive thing, as it disproves the insane desire to push everything to maximum velocity with no consideration for terminal effect.
Heck, the shank & ejected petals are going to do more than enough damage at sub 200m distances to ensure a kill & above that, the impressive expansion will do the same.
What's interesting to me is the low velocity/short range performance - the petals off that bullet didn't somehow disappear, so on impact, they must have sheered off & in a deer, that means increased wound channels & an earlier demise, which can only be a good thing.

 

[CarlW]

I'm not criticising Ed, just posting what the results were.
IMO it's a positive thing, as it disproves the insane desire to push everything to maximum velocity with no consideration for terminal effect.
Heck, the shank & ejected petals are going to do more than enough damage at sub 200m distances to ensure a kill & above that, the impressive expansion will do the same.
What's interesting to me is the low velocity/short range performance - the petals off that bullet didn't somehow disappear, so on impact, they must have sheered off & in a deer, that means increased wound channels & an earlier demise, which can only be a good thing.

I admit that I am a non-lead sceptic and am perhaps showing confirmation-bias; however those images do nothing to increase my confidence. From a small sample, the bullet seems to have behaved chaotically. I will wait for someone to come out with a better bullet than that before I consider moving across to the dark side.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Chaotically?

All monolithics lose petals at higher velocity impacts into harder, denser substrates
All lead cup and core bullets shed weight in a similar if not more unpredictable way when shot into the same substrates.
We have all seen cups with no core, jackets peeled right back to the partition with empty rear sections, bullets expanded to one side indicating tumbling, turning or non linear pass through.

We don’t criticise the performance of a lead bullet by it’s resultant shape

Only one thing matters
Terminal efficacy

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I'm not criticising Ed, just posting what the results were.
IMO it's a positive thing, as it disproves the insane desire to push everything to maximum velocity with no consideration for terminal effect.
Heck, the shank & ejected petals are going to do more than enough damage at sub 200m distances to ensure a kill & above that, the impressive expansion will do the same.
What's interesting to me is the low velocity/short range performance - the petals off that bullet didn't somehow disappear, so on impact, they must have sheered off & in a deer, that means increased wound channels & an earlier demise, which can only be a good thing.

Sorry I wasn’t either (criticising)
It’s good to see people test stuff and record information properly.

 

[CarlW]

We don’t criticise the performance of a lead bullet by it’s resultant shape

We do. It's how we judge their performance (in addition to stuff being dead).

As someone who, on the lead issue, remains to be convinced, those images worry me a good deal. I certainly wouldn't use them.

 

[Andy-shooter]

My results with Fox 130gn in 308.

target was at 100yds pinned to 12mm ply and with a bunker full of dampish fine sand behind.

At 2900fps muzzle they are very accurate and have excellent deformation. The results on deer are pretty much perfect, 30 cal entry hole, golf ball sized exit, massive bleeding but very little damage to the meat around the hole even if I go right through the shoulder.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

My results with Fox 130gn in 308.

Is that with factory loaded rounds or have you been handloading?

 

[Andy-shooter]

Is that with factory loaded rounds or have you been handloading?

home loads.

 

[hammo]

Loaded up a few today for a ladder load test, looking forward to an hour on the range tomorrow.