Thats what I suggested earlier in this thread, and volunteered to participate.
FOX Bullets expansion.
- Thread starter hammo
- Start date
Thats what I suggested earlier in this thread, and volunteered to participate.
I think it would be very interesting to do some comparative tests with various weights and calibre of bullet. But my interest in these tests is not what a close range impact does, but what a longer range impact does. This is an awful lot harder to prove! And that’s the kicker, I can’t really see the point of shooting holes in ballistic gel at short range... Pretty much all bullets will kill very dead, Very few really decent tests have been done at the ranges we shoot animals in this kind of country.
Quick honest question, as Ed has already suggested, can't long range testing be done at 100 yards, but with a downloaded round producing the "700 yards" FPS?
You would be looking at expansion tests at 3, 4, 500 m then Dodgy? Probably viable to download to these velocities and test. My feelings are the same. I dont do long range shooting but imagine that for most uk deer stalking situations a light for calibre mono bullet driven fast would be fine.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
You'd have to come over and do it for us, Dodgy. We're all worried we'd miss the block of gel...
On a more serious note, we'd also need to hand the test to someone with a bit of a scientific bent, who doesn't care either way. Lead now has so much emotional baggage attached to it in the UK (in both directions) that both sides of the argument would be calling 'foul' at every opportunity.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
What’s the ground like where you are? If you have clay nearby dig yourself some up. You can soften it up and get rid of any stones etc just need a wire or strong fishing line to cut it once fired at.Final test session today. 2750fps over the crono giving 2677fpe.
I did manage to capture one bullet, predictably expanded greatly and has shed some pieces.
All good there then.
Next I moved out to a measured 200m, having placed two 25kg sacks of damp builders sand against a banked backstop.
Three shots off my sticks, and very happy with that tidy group 200m off sticks, I call that not bad. Just aimed centre of mass.
Recovered all three bullets, two of which have shed petals, which going by the two petals I recovered look quite uniform.
All three bullets were recovered from the rear of the first sack, however the front of the second sack was ruptured and I expected to find the bullets in that second sack. It seems significant that all three stopped around the same depth into the sacks, shedding the petals seems not to result in a massive increase in penetration.
I am more than happy with accuracy and terminal effect/expansion. The purpose of this post was to publicise my findings, good or bad. I went out last night and dropped two Fox, both at around 100m. Predictably no issues at all. I managed to sell my stockpile of SST's last night, and will be exclusively using the Fox bullets going forward.
I hope my ramblings have given some clarity to those wanting unbiased results. 2 bags of builders sand cost just £3.75, would love to try clay or ballistic wax but I imagine the latter pricey.
Interested in others thoughts. I personally fear that BASC et al have thrown open the barn doors to a 'voluntary ban' on most lead ammo. I was once a qualified heli~abseiler, and jump before your pushed is always sound advice.
1 Barnes ttsx 270 130 gr & Hornady gmx 30-06 150 gr both factory ammo shot into a sand bank at 645m/700yds.
I think there needs to be more R&D into copper bullets, having shot them exclusively over the last 3 months, I am not impressed.I have lost more deer in the last 3 months than I have in the last 3 years contracting using lead.
I agree that as a meat producer copper is the way to go, but it needs more development..
It needs the issue of non expansion at distance addressed, there was a youtube clip from RWS that suggested there copper bullets could not be relied upon past 175m(tried to find it but I think it has been removed),now for some that is fine,but for others it is not.
I honestly believe there is a solution but until the manufacturers are forced onto non toxic , then I think it will be "one size fits all" attitude.
I think there needs to be more R&D into copper bullets, having shot them exclusively over the last 3 months, I am not impressed.I have lost more deer in the last 3 months than I have in the last 3 years contracting using lead.
I agree that as a meat producer copper is the way to go, but it needs more development..
It needs the issue of non expansion at distance addressed, there was a youtube clip from RWS that suggested there copper bullets could not be relied upon past 175m(tried to find it but I think it has been removed),now for some that is fine,but for others it is not.
I honestly believe there is a solution but until the manufacturers are forced onto non toxic , then I think it will be "one size fits all" attitude.
Attachments
![100_2966[1].webp](/data/attachments/105/105896-7b8d3d30968d2c9cf07b977eef35d30d.jpg?hash=GnoZA4EfHi)
Would be easy to shoot out to 300m, 400m. The challenge is getting enough ballistic media together. I would bet we, as a collective, SD members could offer up a selection of calibers and lead/mono rounds. Perhaps Trade members on here could club together and supply a bulk order of ballistic wax or similar??
Could make a good meet up for SD Members too.
Would prove interesting, and like it or not, I fear we may well be led down the path of monos in the near future.
This could be done. Maybe in a years time when things approach some semblance of normality on the public health front.
Lockdown appears to be looming.
The example on the left is ok? That the 270?
I have shovelled clay, VERY hard work!!! and I was a strapping 20 year old then.
There is a plentiful supply of clay on one of my perms, predictably a bit stony. The challenge is filling several sacks, de-stoning it and having NO air pockets. Also it all must be the same water content. Doing all that by hand is virtually a non starter.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone's disputing that Barnes open at 100 metres. The issue is what happens after that. Incidentally, from the pictures (as I have no personal experience of them), Fox seem to be running counter to the rest of the monolythics gang by falling apart at close range but opening much better at medium ranges.
If any of you are not happy with expansion of your lead free bullet, then I'd suggest that you try GS Custom bullets. They are the Hornady SST of copper bullets, being VERY soft, combined with exceptional linear penetration. I think that the manufacturer says that they're for general hunting up to 500m, and expand t speeds down to 1600fps or so.
Are they still accepting orders as the last time I was on to GS Custom there was a note on all calibers saying not taking orders until further notice..
Yep thats the 270 with a Barnes ttsx. if that could be guaranteed everytime I would be happy with that..
Sorry not sure what the status is
Odders
Well-Known Member
Note the last bullet in the image I posted was shot at 275yds & formed a good mushroom:
Similar threads
