Genuine question, even if scanning exists, where would you stand legally if you overlooked someone else's lead in a beast (shotgun pellet, airgun pellet, rimfire, centrefire) ?
Game dealer not accepting lead shot carcasses
- Thread starter imnotrucknut
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Genuine question, even if scanning exists, where would you stand legally if you overlooked someone else's lead in a beast (shotgun pellet, airgun pellet, rimfire, centrefire) ?
I guess that would depend on whether the person selling the game to the game dealer had certified that it was shot with lead free ammunition.
OK so this is coming but frankly I'd like to see Game Dealers first focus on ensuring far greater basic hygiene standards as what I've seen pass for Best Practice carcass handling and storage is frankly shameful.
K
K
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
I’ve got 3 roe in my larder that I’m skinning off on Thursday 2 copper shot with fox 130gn from my 270 and 1 shot with Remington 100gn soft points from a friends 243.
I’ll take pics and share.
Yes but is it the fault of the person selling game to the dealer (who certifies its been killed with a non-toxic bullet, it behaves normally before being shot, glands look fine etc.) and then once butchered a single lead shot is found in the haunch? It would be a bit harsh to blame the stalker, refuse to accept any more carcasses etc.
If he had no way of knowing it was there, he or she can't really be blamed and they are certifying that it was killed with non lead ammo, but that's not the same scenario as finding shrapnel from a lead bullet. I suppose that there is more of a risk of that with say pheasants where they were maybe shot at last year and pricked with lead. If lead was banned it would possibly take a few years for that chance to almost disappear.
In fact you are making a strong case for getting rid of lead as quickly as possible
Even with the lead in it
Having reread this thread I’m back into the ‘it’s all woke nonsense’ category.
If I’m asked to use snd to declare lead free by game dealer then I’ll do that, no probs. Got some good copper loads ready.
Food hygiene might even test the odd one if it becomes law.
The idea of a dealer telling lead from copper shot by sight, scanner, SG, MRI or divining rods is hilarious.
No issue of folk want to shout with lead free to feed raptors or their own well being. But game dealer telling which is a laugh.
If I’m asked to use snd to declare lead free by game dealer then I’ll do that, no probs. Got some good copper loads ready.
Food hygiene might even test the odd one if it becomes law.
The idea of a dealer telling lead from copper shot by sight, scanner, SG, MRI or divining rods is hilarious.
No issue of folk want to shout with lead free to feed raptors or their own well being. But game dealer telling which is a laugh.
The scanner works. Just because you don't believe doesn't make it true. If the dealers are forced down that route then they will buy them. As I said earlier. They do exist and they do work. I just don't know current prices.
No experience with divining rods though.
£200 will get you a hand held detector which will differentiate between copper and lead so not as far fetched as some may think.
The muntjac in my avatar photo had lead pellets embedded in its skull and under the skin the entire length of its body.more extreme but I see where you're coming from
Respectfully, I get there is technology to detect lead. I spent 4 months in Wanlockhead studying lead levels in sheep.
My point is that I’ve yet to see an affordable, butcher-robust tech that will separate copper shot from lead shot at the game dealer.
If someone can point me to a dealer using that in the UK, or even used on a Waitrose meat counter, I’ll be happy to have a look. Genuinely interested, equally genuinely doubtful it’s in use.
If it’s all just an honesty based system when you sign the tag, I’m fine with that. But let’s be honest about how this is/ will work in practice.
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Sampo
Well-Known Member
Wish the website had a section where stalkers could advertise/ sell gralloched carcases at game dealer/ reasonable prices. Although I don't get to stalk as much as I like to, its always good to get a carcass or two over the year which can be butchered and frozen. I believe there could be others like me who enjoy venison and isn't too picky. Also easier to plan if there is a planned cull within the area. Much rather support a fellow stalker than supermarkets.
Shame you weren’t closer!
Sampo
Well-Known Member
I wish, would have loved to be up north. Maybe some day.
TBH I am doubtful that the average AGHE is likely to use the sort of commercial X-ray scanning equipment that I showed, at least not on venison, looking for the tiniest bullet fragments. I'd say that was probably near impossible at the moment.
However it is perfectly practical to use for scanning game birds for the presence of lead shot. An expensive investment I daresay, which they would have to recoup by lower prices to their suppliers, or higher prices to their customers. I foresee some consolidation of their industry, to drive up standards.
Historically a large proportion of our game birds, of which we have vast quantities of pheasant, are exported to the EU.
If, or when, the EU does introduce the same lead limits as there are for farmed meat, I could foresee the day when AGHEs might have little choice but to scan the birds before export, if they continue to be shot with lead here.
Or if retail customers start to strongly demand lead free game meat from retail outlets.
For example from Highland Game's blog last year:
Priority will be given to SQWV standard and lead-free carcasses, supply of retail is 'essential' and only viable market at present
Our big bird pheasant shoots are already controversial enough as it is and find it difficult enough to dispose of their by-product into the food chain. If they find it even more difficult to do that (and not to do so would be entirely unethical), then they risk tarnishing efforts to promote all types of wild game meat.
Further reading:
www.wwt.org.uk
link.springer.com
Selective quotes:
Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and ‘invisible’ to shooters and the wider public alike. ... Our long term waterbird health surveillance has found 10% were killed by lead poisoning – sometimes with dozens or even hundreds of ingested shot pellets being found in their gizzards (a part of their stomach that needs grit to grind their food). Migratory swans like whoopers and Bewick’s were worst affected, with lead poisoning accounting for a quarter of deaths. ... Nationally – using data from various sources – we estimate up to 400,000 wildfowl suffer from poisoning every winter in the UK, of which 50-100,000 die.
However it is perfectly practical to use for scanning game birds for the presence of lead shot. An expensive investment I daresay, which they would have to recoup by lower prices to their suppliers, or higher prices to their customers. I foresee some consolidation of their industry, to drive up standards.
Historically a large proportion of our game birds, of which we have vast quantities of pheasant, are exported to the EU.
If, or when, the EU does introduce the same lead limits as there are for farmed meat, I could foresee the day when AGHEs might have little choice but to scan the birds before export, if they continue to be shot with lead here.
Or if retail customers start to strongly demand lead free game meat from retail outlets.
For example from Highland Game's blog last year:
Priority will be given to SQWV standard and lead-free carcasses, supply of retail is 'essential' and only viable market at present
Our big bird pheasant shoots are already controversial enough as it is and find it difficult enough to dispose of their by-product into the food chain. If they find it even more difficult to do that (and not to do so would be entirely unethical), then they risk tarnishing efforts to promote all types of wild game meat.
Further reading:
Tackling lead ammunition poisoning
Waterbirds are mistaking wasted lead shot from hunting for food and becoming poisoned, affecting many species and the whole ecosystem. WWT are calling for a total ban on the use of lead shot, already in place in many countries.
www.wwt.org.uk
Poisoning from lead gunshot: still a threat to wild waterbirds in Britain - European Journal of Wildlife Research
Lead is a highly toxic metal known to be an important cause of morbidity and mortality in waterbirds and terrestrial birds worldwide. The risk to birds of poisoning from lead has resulted in the introduction of legislation in many countries, such as UK restrictions on the use of lead in angling...
link.springer.com
Selective quotes:
Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and ‘invisible’ to shooters and the wider public alike. ... Our long term waterbird health surveillance has found 10% were killed by lead poisoning – sometimes with dozens or even hundreds of ingested shot pellets being found in their gizzards (a part of their stomach that needs grit to grind their food). Migratory swans like whoopers and Bewick’s were worst affected, with lead poisoning accounting for a quarter of deaths. ... Nationally – using data from various sources – we estimate up to 400,000 wildfowl suffer from poisoning every winter in the UK, of which 50-100,000 die.
Do I detect a DSCL2 bolt-on competency to be had here?
K
K
I was wondering about that earlier but didn't express it.
My thoughts are that "Trained Hunter" only qualifies you to gralloch and inspect the carcase. As shot. Then supply it as primary product. Once you start cutting it, all sorts of other things begin to apply.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
how come jimbo hasnt chimed in yet?
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