Any further feedback on bigger deer? Due to try these in 308
Geco Zero 136gr?
- Thread starter deerstalker.308
- Start date
Just bought some in a rush. Bit worried that they might be too frangible on red stags? Any further feedback?
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Found them very effective personally
Perfect. Estate I am going to is lead free. I have used barnes txs and trophy copper in.my 30-06 in the past but needed a lead free option in 308 at short notice.
TundB
Well-Known Member
I’ve shot around 12 deer over a year with copper including muntjac, cwd, roe and red so I’ve got a little bit knowledge, also learning is in still progress. If head/neck shot any make will work. If aim is chest, I wouldn’t advise using pre-fragmanting bullets to muntjac and cwd like RWS Eco Green, Geco Zero or S&B Blue which always made meat damage. They are OK to roe and bigger deer.
I now settle down slow speed, heavy, weight retaining, monolithic bullets which works well for small deer also no issue with big deer if shot in sensible ranges. Sako Blade 165 grain or Barnes Vor-Tx 168 grains in .308 Win.
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
Not a fan.
In the 308 factory ammo they are slow, around 2800 from my rifle, and didn’t seem to expand much on a 30kg pricket i shot with them.
Clean chest shot so no bone fragments and I was not impressed with the amount of damage to the heart and lungs, a 150gr soft point at the same speed would have shredded them. Calibre sized exit, not at the same angle at which the bullet entered.
I’ve also shot a few foxes with this round, again kills them but doesn’t rip them up as much as lead ammunition does.
I’ve found a load with a Barnes 130gr TTSX at around 3200 fps that does much better
In the 308 factory ammo they are slow, around 2800 from my rifle, and didn’t seem to expand much on a 30kg pricket i shot with them.
Clean chest shot so no bone fragments and I was not impressed with the amount of damage to the heart and lungs, a 150gr soft point at the same speed would have shredded them. Calibre sized exit, not at the same angle at which the bullet entered.
I’ve also shot a few foxes with this round, again kills them but doesn’t rip them up as much as lead ammunition does.
I’ve found a load with a Barnes 130gr TTSX at around 3200 fps that does much better
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
I shot about 20 or so 100- 190kg stags with them last year, all died cleanly and effectively with minimal meat damage. All knew they were hit hard which I did not find with the RWS 165gr I was using before, that just drilled a pencil hole through them and they stood there planning their next move.
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
That would make sense to me, the larger the animal the more bullets has to work against and the more effectively it will kill.
The average fallow pricket is what, 25/30kgs?
The average fallow pricket is what, 25/30kgs?
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
I also should edit to add that a 90kg stag I just butchered which was shot through one shoulder I had to write off that whole shoulder due to bruising and damage. So they aren’t perfect, but on the whole I’ve found them very decisive and effective. That was the first to cause undue meat damage for me.
I changed over to them from 168 barnes, as two chest shot Roe deer were still breathing on the ground and needed dispatch. Pin hole in lungs, only 100 yards. Fallow ok.
Found the Geco zero can expand rather violently sometimes but they work on all species i shoot perfectly. In my opinion, for me, dead faster and abit more damage is better than one running further and having to find it plus the possibillity in mind that I may also have to dispatch. Less stress for the animal and less stress for me.
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Quite agree. I hated the puzzled look on the reds faces when I’d shot them with the heavier RWS which drilled a tiny hole through them. These do at least knock them off their feet well.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There are two very distinct types of lead free bullets.
Those like the Geco Zero or RWS Evo are a like traditional lead bullets, except the core or cores are of tin or zinc. The core material still fragments spraying shards of metal throughout the carcass, just like a lead cored bullet. The carcass is still contaminated with metal fragments, albeit tin and or zinc which much less toxic than lead. But it’s still contaminated with metal particles.
A monolithic copper bullet - eg Yewtree, barnes, fox, Peregrine, HIT etc are designed to open into a spining flower but remain as one solid piece abd typically will exit with 95% plus of bullet together. By staying in one piece they retain energy right the way through the carcass giving a good shock wave right the way through.
But most importantly they are not leaving microscopic metal particles in the carcass. If a petal does break off it is big enough to be seen during processing and removed.
I have seen the Geco Zero’s in use in 7x57 on both Red and Roe. They cause a lot of damage to the carcass.
Re the RWS HIT - I use them in my 7x65R - a 140gn bullet with box MV of 2900 fps. I have shot plenty of Roe and Reds with them. I have had a couple of occasions on Red when bullet has gone a bit far back and just through the lungs where the beast has a little longer than I would like before falling over. But get them in tight ti the shoulder they go straight down and very little meat damage beyond the bullet path.
However I do think Fox or Peregrine (my own experience) and Yewtree (from what I have read) are better bullets for UK deer - they are a little softer and open up a bit wider and give a bigger wound channel.
The HIT is very good on tougher animals like boar.
Those like the Geco Zero or RWS Evo are a like traditional lead bullets, except the core or cores are of tin or zinc. The core material still fragments spraying shards of metal throughout the carcass, just like a lead cored bullet. The carcass is still contaminated with metal fragments, albeit tin and or zinc which much less toxic than lead. But it’s still contaminated with metal particles.
A monolithic copper bullet - eg Yewtree, barnes, fox, Peregrine, HIT etc are designed to open into a spining flower but remain as one solid piece abd typically will exit with 95% plus of bullet together. By staying in one piece they retain energy right the way through the carcass giving a good shock wave right the way through.
But most importantly they are not leaving microscopic metal particles in the carcass. If a petal does break off it is big enough to be seen during processing and removed.
I have seen the Geco Zero’s in use in 7x57 on both Red and Roe. They cause a lot of damage to the carcass.
Re the RWS HIT - I use them in my 7x65R - a 140gn bullet with box MV of 2900 fps. I have shot plenty of Roe and Reds with them. I have had a couple of occasions on Red when bullet has gone a bit far back and just through the lungs where the beast has a little longer than I would like before falling over. But get them in tight ti the shoulder they go straight down and very little meat damage beyond the bullet path.
However I do think Fox or Peregrine (my own experience) and Yewtree (from what I have read) are better bullets for UK deer - they are a little softer and open up a bit wider and give a bigger wound channel.
The HIT is very good on tougher animals like boar.
Sea trout
Well-Known Member
Having read this thread before I thought I would add my recent experience.
accurate with touching holes at 100m. Same POI as my 150gr lead.
I shot 3 CWD and 4 muntjac this weekend using these bullets. All killed with either lung or heart shots.
The trend seemed to be for significant meat damage. Several of the deer had entire shoulders blown out. On inspection there was a lot of copper jacket spread throughout the entire cavity looking like the bullet had broken upalot.
The worst example is below. This was a broadside shot that blew off the shoulder
accurate with touching holes at 100m. Same POI as my 150gr lead.
I shot 3 CWD and 4 muntjac this weekend using these bullets. All killed with either lung or heart shots.
The trend seemed to be for significant meat damage. Several of the deer had entire shoulders blown out. On inspection there was a lot of copper jacket spread throughout the entire cavity looking like the bullet had broken upalot.
The worst example is below. This was a broadside shot that blew off the shoulder
TundB
Well-Known Member
That sort of carcasse damage is quite common with copper chest-shot, especially with fragmenting bullets in close distance shots.
If you can get ‘touching holes’ in 100 metres, just stalk in them and take a neck shot.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Awful on deer, like hand grenades.
Should be banned for cheat shots but I suspect would be ok for head/neck shots and foxing
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Based on what I’ve seen on roe, they’ll blow up on the shoulder of reds
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Nope, have continued using them and they’re actually spot on, wouldn’t change from them now. No excessive damage on reds, but decisive kills which I like!
+1. Success with red and sika. Estate pleased with the carcass quality. £50 a box locally.
Regards
JCS
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